Just My Learning MSF Thread

[jan-sandahl]

Not sure what the Bipolar button does in the MSF Per-Voice LFO(1) popup does; it has no Help (F1) and it doesn't 'flop over' the signal like the Circular button. Can we have a help entry for that, please? Thanks.

When you drag and drop modulation to something, the LFO modulates from 0-100%. When you select bipolar it modulates between negative 100% to positive 100%. You can see the effect in the mod window (with the A, B, C, D lanes etc). If it doesn't it may be a bug lurking.

[Hexspa]

Ok, I think I get it. Thanks.

Here's some notes about the modulation behavior when Cycles is less than Off (inf). Maybe something to consider, maybe not:

This might be normal but I found it weird at first. Basically, if LFO cycles is, say 1 or 2, its 'resting state' is an offset from Zero/Bypass. I realize this is related to the negative phase (270deg) of the LFO being equal to zero modulation but I guess it seemed like it should somehow not do that i.e. 270deg creating a positive instead of neutral effect. It's almost like the LFO1 amount slider in the MOD window is a sustain level whereas I thought it would just be purely an amount slider.

--
To recreate:
In the LFO(1) window, Cycles is set to Off by default. However, if you reduce it to a finite number, say 1, after the LFO completes, its effect is not returned to zero. For example, assign it to Oscillator Semitones; Mod: Semitones/Depth 5%; LFO1 window/Cycles 1; DAW playback; cycle completes; toggle LFO1 Enable from LFO1 window Toolbar. You will hear that the pitch is toggling. This happens despite Init Phase being at 0%. To me, this seems incorrect because an LFO going from 0 to 0 deg should have a net zero effect after the LFO cycle completes. Importantly, the pitch offset is governed by the Mod: Semitones A/LFO1 amount slider (the one under the Modulation Popup, Invert and Transformation buttons). Fully to the right, the pitch is higher when LFO1 is active and Cycles does not equal Off.

--
This is the first synth I'm trying to master as much as possible hence my fine-toothed comb approach. Thanks for your patience and help.

[Hexspa]

Two small things about per-voice Env(1) window and one bigger thing:

1: Env1: Level on trigger has no effect on sustain offset when sustain level is Silence. Maybe put in help notes as a helpful convenience.

2: Also a weird graphical glitch where the per-voice modulation icon next to Level On Trigger shows an offset occasionally
after Ctrl+R.Clicking (set to default) while the envelope is playing back. You may need to try this a few times for this behavior to manifest.

3. The bigger thing is that I can't get the Retrigger function to work. I'm expecting it to 'run the envelope' again but it does nothing. This is whether I manually turn the knob or assign something like an LFO (will full amount). To recreate, set Env1 to Oscillator Semitones then attempt to use the Env Retrigger function. I get no effect at all in contrast to what's happening in the official help video (0:52): https://youtu.be/FdMHV1wlrlA?t=50

Thanks.

[Hexspa]

Small thing: For the Random(1) per-voice modulator window, Speed Multiply has no effect when Speed is at 0%. I understand that n*0=0 but I think it might be better if Speed Multiply acted on the detected tempo rather than the Speed value. If not, the Speed Multiply's values don't make sense because when Speed Multiply is at 0%, it's actually multiplying by 0.5. This is in contrast to Speed which, when at 0% is actually 100% of the tempo. Please forgive if it seems pedantic - maybe it's because I've been reviewing my math skills - but I think that these knobs could be more clear as to what they can do and how they're labeled.

Related is that the Smoothness knob which currently goes from -100 to 100% with 0% at noon. Maybe it's more intuitive to make it go from 0-200% with 0% being not smooth, 100% being noon (linear interpolation) and 200% being 'fully smooth' I think this makes sense because negative numbers imply some kind of inversion, as though the smoothness is applied in some kind of upside down manner.

Perhaps this idea can be more broadly applied to Multiparameters themselves since it seems that many of these 'factory' knobs were created in an MP-like way. What I'm saying is that one of the options in Multiparameter/Value Mode can be 'User' where the left, center, and right values can be defined. Also something like '0.5x through 1x' can be defined as a visual representation of a multiplication function.

Thank you for reading - hopefully this helps.

[Hexspa]

For the sake of consistency, I'm mentioning that Ctrl+Right Clicking on the Oscillator waveform does not reset the phase to 0. To do that, you have to double click. The reason I mention it is because Ctrl+Right Click is supposed to be the new way of setting to default

Also, since you can change the waveform phase from the Shape window, I thought it'd be nice if the Init Phase knob would move to reflect the position of the waveform in the Shape window and vice-versa: when you move the Init Phase knob, the Shape waveform will also move. This is similar to how the Transform/Depth knob changes the appearance of the waveform.

thx

[Hexspa]

Here's something interesting: when you have MXXX bypassed in reaper (checkbox unchecked), Multiparameters in Trigger Mode appear like Switches but still act like Triggers. In other words, you can push the buttons but they stay pushed in.

The latency with Analog LP crossovers at 120dB/oct is comically high. It should just be named Cheech Mode. I know that's how it goes but dang

20220406-0111-image-melda-analog-lp-crossover-latency-cheech.png

[jan-sandahl]

Ok, I think I get it. Thanks.
--
This is the first synth I'm trying to master as much as possible hence my fine-toothed comb approach. Thanks for your patience and help.

You picked one hell of a beast to learn in/from. You'll learn a lot of Melda specific things that are not necessarily translatable to synths in general. From time to time at least.

There are some bugs here and there, but overall I'm seriously impressed considering how huge and complex this creation is. Not sure myself about what the best channel is for suggestions etc.

One of my big issues is that the global modulations don't combine, like the per voice modulations do. Easy to achieve in other synths, but non-existent here. IF you add LFO modulators to the same parameter, MSF will only use the last one added it seems.

[Hexspa]

Haha, yeah. It's not the first synth I open - I'd probably give up if it was - but the first synth I'm trying to open 'all the way'.

Now that I have the lid cracked, I can see that parts of the inside lip aren't painted but figure if I keep writing about it, maybe those unfinished areas will be painted with even more inappropriately psychedelic colors than the façade which enticed me. I don't know what you mean about the 'channel for suggestions'; can you explain me?

The global modulators don't combine, right, but you can directly apply a Modulator's LFO to its Envelope. You can also apply another Modulator's Envelope to, say, the Value and Max knobs to create a fade-in effect, for example. However, sure enough, nobody's going to perform fun math operations among the regular Modulators.

I have a question: In the Select Modulation Source window Help, it says, "Main Controllers provides access to the 8 custom controllers the user can select in MIDI settings." The thing is that there are 16. I see in Melda Kernel Version 13.06 that 16 Main Controllers were added so maybe this is outdated help info. If not, I'm confus.

https://www.meldaproduction.com/changes ... undFactory

Thank you.

[jan-sandahl]

I don't know what you mean about the 'channel for suggestions'; can you explain me?

I have a question: In the Select Modulation Source window Help, it says, "Main Controllers provides access to the 8 custom controllers the user can select in MIDI settings." The thing is that there are 16. I see in Melda Kernel Version 13.06 that 16 Main Controllers were added so maybe this is outdated help info. If not, I'm confus.

https://www.meldaproduction.com/changes ... undFactory

Thank you.

By channel I just meant where to best post suggestions/feature requests. Maybe there's thread in the forum I'm not recalling right now from the top of my head.

As to your question I don't know right now. Maybe I will look into it later. Time etc...

[Hexspa]

I don't know what you mean about the 'channel for suggestions'; can you explain me?

I have a question: In the Select Modulation Source window Help, it says, "Main Controllers provides access to the 8 custom controllers the user can select in MIDI settings." The thing is that there are 16. I see in Melda Kernel Version 13.06 that 16 Main Controllers were added so maybe this is outdated help info. If not, I'm confus.

https://www.meldaproduction.com/changes ... undFactory

Thank you.

By channel I just meant where to best post suggestions/feature requests. Maybe there's thread in the forum I'm not recalling right now from the top of my head.

As to your question I don't know right now. Maybe I will look into it later. Time etc...

Thanks, friend. Yeah, this is more so me journaling. I did a similar thing on a different forum when I was acoustically treating my room. Something about putting out my ideas helps me think them through better. Plus, if I end up having questions, I can just keep them here in one tidy place.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the help just didn't get updated to reflect the added Main Controllers that 13.06 brought. Mission critical, I know.

[jan-sandahl]

Ok, I think I get it. Thanks.
--
This is the first synth I'm trying to master as much as possible hence my fine-toothed comb approach. Thanks for your patience and help.

You picked one hell of a beast to learn in/from. You'll learn a lot of Melda specific things that are not necessarily translatable to synths in general. From time to time at least.

There are some bugs here and there, but overall I'm seriously impressed considering how huge and complex this creation is. Not sure myself about what the best channel is for suggestions etc.

One of my big issues is that the global modulations don't combine, like the per voice modulations do. Easy to achieve in other synths, but non-existent here. If you add LFO modulators to the same parameter, MSF will only use the last one added it seems.

[jan-sandahl]

Not sure what happened here... Thought I was editing a previous comment.

[Hexspa]

Hi. The vertical black, thin tracking line inside the Per-Voice Modulation Transformation window seems like it doesn't keep up with notes played close together. For example, when trying to transform a Velocity scale modulation, it'll track the note on velocity but only at about a 600ms rate (I tapped 94bpm to check). This matters if you want to make a detailed velocity map.

EDIT: I should mention that this seems only if the Velocity scale modulator is assigned to something on the Global Envelope and the graph you use is the one that appears for other modulators and not the 'special' one that comes with Velocity scale (the Velocity Scale (1) window). The 'popup one' works fine. Small thing but there it is.

EDIT2: No, either I'm too tired to see straight or there's something definitely not right about the tracking on these graphs. Forgive me but I don't want to test every possibility. I think if you try to use velocity scale modulators on the global envelope, eventually something will break with this feature.

EDIT3: Ok, definitely too tired. I restarted reaper and now it's fine. Idk, maybe check it out.

Thank you.

[Hexspa]

Something which is not clear, and doesn't seem to be detailed in the help, is how Velocity/Velocity scale and Key/Key scale differ. I just figured it out but maybe it'd be good to add this kind of explaination:

The Transformation on the right (wiggly line icon) is per-parameter i.e. is not shared among assignments whereas the Transformation graph in the popup for Velocity scale and Key scale are shared.

I don't know how you want to phrase it but I think that anything is better than nothing. Maybe the names of the Transformations can be changed as right now they're identical though having different functionality.

EDIT: I see the Modulation Source Help covers it. Still, a reminder in the Velocity/Velocity scale Key/Key scale modulators would've helped me.

EDIT2: Very small proofread: Time From Last Press/Release Modulators, Help says '...may be wastly...' which is probably supposed to be 'vastly'.

Thank you.

[dmbaer]

The global modulators don't combine, right

Not right. You can modulate (or use an MP) to change the value of modulation target assignment parameters in another modulator (e.g. Depth in other than Interval mode, or Max Value in Interval mode). This is a very powerful technique that becomes indispensable once you understand it (and it's actually pretty straightforward).

For example, set a (global) envelope to modulate the Depth parameter (in a global LFO) of whatever an LFO is targeting. Then your LFO strength is modulated by the envelope. Some of this kind of capability is built into the modulation module, but not this particular trick (which would be a lovely enhancement IMO).