One Synth Challenge #157: FB-7999 by Full Bucket Music (Voting Started!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
IV!
KVRist
460 posts since 31 Oct, 2019

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:25 am

Ahaha, yeah, I love when there are such deep discussions between many participants, they can really be something useful for everyone! In addition, they perfectly brightened up my 28th birthday, which I still spend at home! :lol: And by the way, I also went to ballroom dancing with my ex-wife for about a year, and I agree - these are solid rules and conventions! Since then, only music! :hihi: I really want to buy a bongo or djembe, although I think that this tool, like all the others, was also not without calculations, only more simplified. :wink:

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:43 am

Got a djembe! ...for so many years. But how weird... did I actually write the line about the tango?!? Nah, I chose differently, I think, but I was gonna mention dancing, hehe.

Anyway, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, IV!!!! :party:

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FrogsInPants
KVRist
284 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:53 am

Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:06 am Tssss...what a weird discussion, bringing out the best and worst of all of us, hm!? :hihi:
Yeah, damn math, too, and thinking in general, because that is for evil-doers, pah. And let's express our luddite conviction by using synths... :o ...you mean, software, utterly conceived in math and science on devices of technology that didn't come straight out of the jungle? That is terrible. Let's go back to quilted bamboo bongos and throat-singing. (Damn it, I love throat-singing) :lol:
Taron, I'm struggling to find a reading of this that makes any sense to me. I didn't take anyone in this conversation as suggesting that thinking, analysis, or theory are bad and should be avoided. And if an individual has no interest in math or theory, that doesn't mean they shouldn't benefit from the work of those who use them to produce enabling technologies. That's like suggesting that cars are only for people with a proper appreciation of mechanics.

Totally agreed on throat singing, though. :tu:

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:02 am

FrogsInPants wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:53 am
Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:06 am Tssss...what a weird discussion, bringing out the best and worst of all of us, hm!? :hihi:
Yeah, damn math, too, and thinking in general, because that is for evil-doers, pah. And let's express our luddite conviction by using synths... :o ...you mean, software, utterly conceived in math and science on devices of technology that didn't come straight out of the jungle? That is terrible. Let's go back to quilted bamboo bongos and throat-singing. (Damn it, I love throat-singing) :lol:
Taron, I'm struggling to find a reading of this that makes any sense to me. I didn't take anyone in this conversation as suggesting that thinking, analysis, or theory are bad and should be avoided. And if an individual has no interest in math or theory, that doesn't mean they shouldn't benefit from the work of those who use them to produce enabling technologies. That's like suggesting that cars are only for people with a proper appreciation of mechanics.

Totally agreed on throat singing, though. :tu:
Oh, no, that was my reaction to the whole "white supremacy" bullshit, mentioned earlier, tssss. :roll:
...associating things at random to justify dislike and/or ignorance. It's just annoying and so damn trendy.

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silverpants
KVRist
87 posts since 4 Jan, 2022

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:45 am

I love maths and logic and working out the patterns and formulas that make up life. Synths appeal to the scientist/programmer in me.

But composing - for me - is a break from that rational logical side of my brain.
Captain Silverpants

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FrogsInPants
KVRist
284 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:05 am

Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:02 am
FrogsInPants wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:53 am
Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:06 am Tssss...what a weird discussion, bringing out the best and worst of all of us, hm!? :hihi:
Yeah, damn math, too, and thinking in general, because that is for evil-doers, pah. And let's express our luddite conviction by using synths... :o ...you mean, software, utterly conceived in math and science on devices of technology that didn't come straight out of the jungle? That is terrible. Let's go back to quilted bamboo bongos and throat-singing. (Damn it, I love throat-singing) :lol:
Taron, I'm struggling to find a reading of this that makes any sense to me. I didn't take anyone in this conversation as suggesting that thinking, analysis, or theory are bad and should be avoided. And if an individual has no interest in math or theory, that doesn't mean they shouldn't benefit from the work of those who use them to produce enabling technologies. That's like suggesting that cars are only for people with a proper appreciation of mechanics.

Totally agreed on throat singing, though. :tu:
Oh, no, that was my reaction to the whole "white supremacy" bullshit, mentioned earlier, tssss. :roll:
...associating things at random to justify dislike and/or ignorance. It's just annoying and so damn trendy.
You may find it annoying and trendy and bullshit, but I don't think it's actually doing what you seem to think it's doing. It laid out a case that music theory as taught in the west has racial and cultural biases that limit its usefulness in understanding large portions of the music of the world. It's not meant to justify dislike and/or ignorance of music theory, but to encourage looking at music from a broader perspective, and to incorporate that into how music theory will be taught in the future. In fact, the section with Ben Shapiro shows a clear example of the opposite of what you're suggesting, how the biases of western music theory can be used to justify dislike and/or ignorance of music that does not fit well within its paradigm.

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 am

All well and good and with "Lord of the Springs" I've even written a synth that was equipped to break particularly all current conventions (440 and so forth), but there are plenty of far worse habits we should be breaking and that would entirely derail the thread, I'm afraid. :ud: ...instead I suggest to just embrace the good intentions of encouragement to explore what wisdom is available to us, not to adopt the bad agendas, but to strengthen our creative range of expression.

It would, however, be totally awesome, if someone was able to do an OSC track with more exotic scales and different musical heritage!!! That would be brilliant! :hyper:

IV!
KVRist
460 posts since 31 Oct, 2019

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:44 am

Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 am All well and good and with "Lord of the Springs" I've even written a synth that was equipped to break particularly all current conventions (440 and so forth), but there are plenty of far worse habits we should be breaking and that would entirely derail the thread, I'm afraid. :ud: ...instead I suggest to just embrace the good intentions of encouragement to explore what wisdom is available to us, not to adopt the bad agendas, but to strengthen our creative range of expression.

It would, however, be totally awesome, if someone was able to do an OSC track with more exotic scales and different musical heritage!!! That would be brilliant! :hyper:
Yeah, thanks for it! Few synthesizers make it possible to reconfigure the base frequency, even fewer of them allow you to do it normally, in the integer value of Hz. I don't pronounce the word conspiracy, but I don't understand it...

Are you talking about microtonal music or something else? Microtonal music is sometimes made by Leonard Bowman, maybe there was someone else. I recently played with XenArt synthesizers and... well, while I don't find most of these scales inspiring, I probably just need to study and listen to it all more) But similar thoughts often visit my head too.

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:57 am

Exactly, which is also why I put micro-tuning into LotS, too! Various reasons, actually. Besides the ability to have pitch bend range based on notes, so you can pitch bend chords, too, without breaking a stride! :D

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Full Bucket
KVRian
861 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:15 pm

FB-7999 supports MTS-ESP, this could have been the chance to do some microtonal stuff... :hihi:

emikaela
KVRist
74 posts since 30 Dec, 2020

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:31 pm

Full Bucket wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:15 pm FB-7999 supports MTS-ESP, this could have been the chance to do some microtonal stuff... :hihi:
i did explore that, but ended up with another direction for that one. but i have done a few such submissions in the past, most recently with your whispair in #152! :)

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Yadrichik_Chaya
KVRist
173 posts since 5 Oct, 2021

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:06 pm

Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:02 am
FrogsInPants wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:53 am
Taron wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:06 am Tssss...what a weird discussion, bringing out the best and worst of all of us, hm!? :hihi:
Yeah, damn math, too, and thinking in general, because that is for evil-doers, pah. And let's express our luddite conviction by using synths... :o ...you mean, software, utterly conceived in math and science on devices of technology that didn't come straight out of the jungle? That is terrible. Let's go back to quilted bamboo bongos and throat-singing. (Damn it, I love throat-singing) :lol:
Taron, I'm struggling to find a reading of this that makes any sense to me. I didn't take anyone in this conversation as suggesting that thinking, analysis, or theory are bad and should be avoided. And if an individual has no interest in math or theory, that doesn't mean they shouldn't benefit from the work of those who use them to produce enabling technologies. That's like suggesting that cars are only for people with a proper appreciation of mechanics.

Totally agreed on throat singing, though. :tu:
Oh, no, that was my reaction to the whole "white supremacy" bullshit, mentioned earlier, tssss. :roll:
...associating things at random to justify dislike and/or ignorance. It's just annoying and so damn trendy.
My post linking to the video was not intended for being trendy and the so called ”bullshit” happens to be a reality.

Bottom line - A theory that is not universal and inclusive should not deem itself superior and try to dominate as the ”truth”.

There are tons of things in the universe that Scientists have to dismiss since these things clearly are outside of their domain of research, completely. To even think about, let alone investigate these things, by a scientist would be seen as laughable and ”unscientific” by the scientific community.

The guys behind Western music theory deems all other music around the world as primitive, barbaric or if modernized maybe ”pseudo-music”?
But never the real deal.

The exact same mentality is also found in western philosophy/spirituality.

I never associate things at random, especially to justify things like dislike and ignorance, which are two of the three types of desire to get rid of in buddhism... :hail:
I play World music too, I'm just not sure which world it's from... :lol:

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:08 pm

Nah, it's "bullshit" in regards to dismissing the validity of its concept for the type of music we generally make here. In other words: We are making music using western scales, 8 note scales, 12 note keys per octave and all related chord constructions. To then rebel against its origin in order to argue against learning about it, whilst still using it, is...well... bullshit. It's fine and all, not a reality I dismiss, nor would I have any political notion around it. It's just what we use and has a solid mathematical framework that works perfectly well for it. That's all.

IV!
KVRist
460 posts since 31 Oct, 2019

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:41 pm

Just don't quarrel, please, both of you, my two favorite interlocutors in OSC! :pray: When I look at these long texts juggling very abstract concepts, I almost intuitively feel a very high risk of misunderstanding. Even if I were talking to someone in my own language, we would have to convey our point of view very long and thoroughly and delve into someone else's just to find a common language in which we could start this conversation. You both may understand the meaning of all these words and their connectives better, but the essence is somewhere in between, and I believe that two wise musicians, each of whom creates beautiful music in their own way, can see the essence in the words of the other, understand and begin to speak as interlocutors.

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Taron
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:03 pm

And especially not on your birthday! :hug: ... nah, it's a curious exchange. Yadrichik is a wild and wonderful guy and I'm fascinated by what he does. I understand the point and I'm a sucker for the wicked history, especially in light of what insanity is has been leading us all into, while it's dangerous to talk about it. I just don't like when a potentially fruitful topic like considering a wealth of strength from understanding more about music theory, gets undermined by such tangents. Besides, while we're "naturally" by our cultural heritage and apparent adherence create with western musical fundamentals, any music theory would be just as fruitful and useful and has never been excluded by what I was talking about. Anything that gives YOU orientation to help provide whatever orientation you want to offer to the listener is perfect and brilliant. I used the word "communication" to describe music. Is that something that does not apply to any music theory outside the western world? I'd be horrified to learn for that to be so. Of course, it is communication. You transmit, we receive. This is communication. How long or how often do you listen to Gamelan bands on your playlist? Hm? How often? Once? Do you even know what they are? How many sitar tracks play in your home, in your ears? If so, why don't you try to make those with a synth? Why not? Oh, you mean, you want to communicate your ideas in a way that you expect most of us to actually receive them? So... this is what this is about. Nothing else. I'm just a little angry when I'm really trying to help, give some hints, hope to inspire some research so that some of us could actually increase the clarity of their vision, which is tremendous joy, immense fun. To then drag all of this into the mud of sociopolitical smut that turned humanities love for each other on its head... it's just annoying. You see!?

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