One Synth Challenge #159: Surge XT

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
baconpaul
KVRist
495 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Tue May 10, 2022 9:59 am

Just an FYI for people using the *clap* beta version

CLAP core API is still revving so there is some version lock. BWS 4.2.* is built with clap 0.24 which the current surge nightly uses. BWS 4.3 will use clap 0.25 (we think; or maybe later if we find more issues) so if you have the current nightly and upgrade BWS from 4.2 to 4.3 beta 1, your clap won't load.

I'm (literally) working on this now and have a PR coming together to upgrade the nightly clap to 0.25. This will, though, mean that if you use 4.2 the nightly after that merge won't work. So requires a bit of planning.

but in good news, the move to 0.25 lets me start supporting polyphonic modulation and note expression, which will fix TJ Shredders problem once i do note expressions this week, and lets me do poly mod right now. Here's a little video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIN8DhAytgw

The VST3 is not version locked in the same way, and once CLAP emerges at a 1.0 version, it of course will no longer require this version management either.

Thanks

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
1560 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pm

baconpaul wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:59 am Just an FYI for people using the *clap* beta version

CLAP core API is still revving so there is some version lock. BWS 4.2.* is built with clap 0.24 which the current surge nightly uses. BWS 4.3 will use clap 0.25 (we think; or maybe later if we find more issues) so if you have the current nightly and upgrade BWS from 4.2 to 4.3 beta 1, your clap won't load.

I'm (literally) working on this now and have a PR coming together to upgrade the nightly clap to 0.25. This will, though, mean that if you use 4.2 the nightly after that merge won't work. So requires a bit of planning.
Tested this morning (11.05.) with Bitwig 4.3 Beta 1 and Surge XT NIGHTLY-2022-05-11-613bd50
Loads and plays well. Baconpaul and all the other Surge XT folks at github - you rock!
I will try the per-voice stuff later. I'm so curious ... way to many things to toy around1

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rockingricky
KVRist
115 posts since 18 Jan, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed May 11, 2022 9:36 am

Do you know this situation?
You have a quite nice idea of an intro, but then you're struggling with the rest of the track .... :(

BBFG#
KVRAF
6696 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Post Wed May 11, 2022 9:47 am

***************************************
Last edited by BBFG# on Thu May 12, 2022 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
1560 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Wed May 11, 2022 11:25 am

Holy Maths, Batman!
There's a LUA interpreter built into the Modulator-Section ... on first contact I only came up with

Code: Select all

modstate["output"] = sin(2*math.pi*modstate["phase"])
 
Thats gonna be funny, because I can revive my code from the TAL NoiseMaker Round ... and translate it into Lua ... watch out Richard ... dicussions coming on discord ... ha ha ha.

User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRAF
1560 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Wed May 11, 2022 11:32 am

Next Script ...

Code: Select all

function init(modstate)
    -- this function is called at the creation of each LFO (so voice on etc...)
    -- and allows you to adjust the modstate with pre-calculated values
    modstate["twopi"]=2*math.pi
    return modstate
end

function process(modstate)
    -- this is the per-block'process'. input will contain keys 'phase' 'intphase',
    -- 'deform'. You must set the output value and return it. See the manual or
    -- tutorials for more
    otherPhase=modstate["phase"]*2
    modstate["output"] = sin(modstate.twopi* sin(otherPhase*modstate.twopi))
    return modstate
end
Surge Functions 001.png
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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
1560 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Wed May 11, 2022 12:21 pm

Here's a first patch. You can have it. It's a taiko kind of sound.
It uses maths, the integrated lua interpreter, amplitude modulation and some brains...
... the same technique that got me disqualified in the tal noise maker round ...he he he.... so use wisely.
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IV!
KVRist
460 posts since 31 Oct, 2019

Post Wed May 11, 2022 3:07 pm

] Peter:H [ wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:21 pm Here's a first patch. You can have it. It's a taiko kind of sound.
It uses maths, the integrated lua interpreter, amplitude modulation and some brains...
... the same technique that got me disqualified in the tal noise maker round ...he he he.... so use wisely.
This is an interesting approach, although ambiguous, but it seems to me that it is within the rules as long as you use mathematical functions and do not upload scanned wave tables there. In this thread on the second page, the topic of wavetables has already been discussed - personally, I think that it has not yet been disclosed and the rules about WT are imperfect. Your approach allows you to do a lot through MSEG, including forbidden things with WT. I don't remember the whole story with NoiseMaker and I'm not the kind of person who likes to stifle someone's creative impulses. When you made NM say "Zombie", it was incredible, it was like I saw the most difficult trick of an illusionist, and thank you for that! But for the OSC track, this probably won't allowed yet. I feel like this gray area is very blurry, but so far it is.
Someone has to manually enter a vocal sample into MSEG with the mouse, then this will change everything...

various_waves
KVRer
5 posts since 17 Apr, 2022

Post Wed May 11, 2022 5:30 pm

https://soundcloud.com/user-250035734/o ... al_sharing

Hi everyone. I enjoyed participating for the first time last month so I decided to create a submission for this month's as well. It's still early in the month so I'll probably submit an updated version or two before the deadline.


DAW: Reaper

Plugin Instances:
Surge: 14 Instances
TDR Nova: 16
Saturation Knob: 2
LALA Compressor: 3
ReaComp: 10
Ozone Imager: 1
CHOWTape: 6
PreFET: 2
De-esser (cockos): 2
Valhalla Supermassive: 3
ReaGate: 1
ReaDelay: 1

baconpaul
KVRist
495 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Wed May 11, 2022 6:58 pm

IV! wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:07 pm
] Peter:H [ wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:21 pm Here's a first patch. You can have it. It's a taiko kind of sound.
It uses maths, the integrated lua interpreter, amplitude modulation and some brains...
... the same technique that got me disqualified in the tal noise maker round ...he he he.... so use wisely.
This is an interesting approach, although ambiguous, but it seems to me that it is within the rules as long as you use mathematical functions and do not upload scanned wave tables there. In this thread on the second page, the topic of wavetables has already been discussed - personally, I think that it has not yet been disclosed and the rules about WT are imperfect. Your approach allows you to do a lot through MSEG, including forbidden things with WT. I don't remember the whole story with NoiseMaker and I'm not the kind of person who likes to stifle someone's creative impulses. When you made NM say "Zombie", it was incredible, it was like I saw the most difficult trick of an illusionist, and thank you for that! But for the OSC track, this probably won't allowed yet. I feel like this gray area is very blurry, but so far it is.
Someone has to manually enter a vocal sample into MSEG with the mouse, then this will change everything...
I don’t make the rules but we added the Lua interpreter so people could explicitly modulate in ways we hadn’t predicted. You still have to figure out how. It is an integral feature of surge xt and I hope people enjoy it! Check out some of the tutorials (in patch browser last column tutorials - 10 and up are really fun) for what you can do.

Oh also if you use bitwig and clap and get the latest nightly, note expressions work.

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bmanic
KVRAF
9355 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Wed May 11, 2022 7:28 pm

Anybody noticed how much some patches in Surge change with samplerate of the DAW? I was thinking of doing this project in 96kHz as I need a bit of high frequency stuff that is aliasing quite a bit.. but the pad I made completely changes it's sound from 48kHz to 96kHz.

Is there any planned support for higher sample rates in the future or is this a no-go?
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

Rahodees
KVRist
65 posts since 19 Apr, 2022

Post Wed May 11, 2022 10:54 pm

This post can be deleted, sorry!

Rahodees
KVRist
65 posts since 19 Apr, 2022

Post Thu May 12, 2022 12:51 am

Well. This might be my entry unfortunately.

https://soundcloud.com/kris-rhodes-8525 ... al_sharing

Uses One (1) (as in a single) instance of Surge XT.
Uses Kjaelvard Classic Limiter and MSaturate

Fun fact: Starting from the three minute mark, everything you're hearing until a bit at the end of the song is just a single _oscillator_. Surge is nuts man. (A single oscilator played three times in polyphony to be sure, but all three are long drones, which I would not have guessed from what is actually heard in the song.)

This is a work in progress. I bit off too much. It's going to continue to be a mess all the way to the end. It's okay.

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RichardSemper
KVRian
781 posts since 30 Oct, 2013 from Stoke On Trent

Post Thu May 12, 2022 12:53 am

IV! wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:07 pm
] Peter:H [ wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:21 pm Here's a first patch. You can have it. It's a taiko kind of sound.
It uses maths, the integrated lua interpreter, amplitude modulation and some brains...
... the same technique that got me disqualified in the tal noise maker round ...he he he.... so use wisely.
This is an interesting approach, although ambiguous, but it seems to me that it is within the rules as long as you use mathematical functions and do not upload scanned wave tables there. In this thread on the second page, the topic of wavetables has already been discussed - personally, I think that it has not yet been disclosed and the rules about WT are imperfect. Your approach allows you to do a lot through MSEG, including forbidden things with WT. I don't remember the whole story with NoiseMaker and I'm not the kind of person who likes to stifle someone's creative impulses. When you made NM say "Zombie", it was incredible, it was like I saw the most difficult trick of an illusionist, and thank you for that! But for the OSC track, this probably won't allowed yet. I feel like this gray area is very blurry, but so far it is.
Someone has to manually enter a vocal sample into MSEG with the mouse, then this will change everything...
Indeed, this was an illusion. What he did with noisemaker was to use the LFO as a sample playback oscillator, and imported samples to it, including the vocal phrase you mention, the kicks and other percussions. This contravened the OSC rules regarding use of samples. It has nothing to do with the method, or the capabilities of the synth.

All this was explained to him in detail, but he refused to accept it and still believes it was his 'clever' technique which was disqualified. He got aggressive and abusive in private messages, and I refuse to engage him further on these issues as a result. But he still continues to push this on the forum whenever possible, with such disinformation as in the above quote.

By all means, the capabilities of the synth may be used - except for import and playback of samples and phrases generated elsewhere.

baconpaul
KVRist
495 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Thu May 12, 2022 2:45 am

bmanic wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:28 pm Anybody noticed how much some patches in Surge change with samplerate of the DAW? I was thinking of doing this project in 96kHz as I need a bit of high frequency stuff that is aliasing quite a bit.. but the pad I made completely changes it's sound from 48kHz to 96kHz.

Is there any planned support for higher sample rates in the future or is this a no-go?
Some features - especially the string oscillator - are quite samplerate dependent yes, especially with noise sources. Alias is, less so. There's some other edge cases too and, of course, feedback based patches can change with SR too. But if you have a particular patch which you think is inexplicably SR dependent would love to poke at it.

If you are using 1.0.1 rather than the nightly also, the SR is a global so changing (or mixing) SR in session can be tricky. We've fixed that for the next release we think.

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