Confession: I can't use ugly plugins.

[zachy9]

The sweet spot for me is "nice to look at, but not so nice that it tricks my ears."

[BONES]

But where's the fun in that?

The fun, the only fun, is in producing great music. Everything else is utterly irrelevant, isn't it? If you don't end up with a song that you're happy with, that you're proud of, what does it matter how you got there?

Would you really rather do it like this than like this?

I'd rather get the sound right in the instrument and not have to bother with EQ at all. But if I can't, I just use this -

Pro EQ.png

(Shown actual size)

[Teksonik]

I'm just saying that popularity may be to some degree related to price so probably not a fair comparison.

What I'm saying is that ProQ and SPAN both have e.g. 1000 regular users.

And what I'm saying is that a free plugin is likely to have more users than a $179 plugin. The fact that you're guessing they have the same number of users is telling.

If a narrative that Voxengo plugin are "ugly" is valid, then there must be as many ugly-lovers as beauty-lovers?

Voxengo plugins are visually unappealing to me. Obviously not everyone shares my opinion and that goes back to the point that personal preference can vary wildly from one user to the next.

Or, if you insist on comparing free to free, MAnalyzer is 5 times less mentioned, BlueCat FreqAnalyst is 3 times less mentioned. 7phases is 10 times less mentioned.

I'm not insisting on anything but yes free to free is a more fair comparison than free to $179.

Look, your plugins are well respected here and have been for many years. I just don't personally care for their GUI style. It wouldn't keep me from buying one of your plugins but it certainly doesn't inspire me to buy any.

[Teksonik]

Not really fair to compare free with $179.

Because?
"You get what you pay for" is BS in the plugin world. Actually same w/gear, now that I think of it.

It's simple, to compare downloads of a free plugin to one that costs $179 isn't a level playing field.

Of course there are likely to be more downloads of the free SPAN than the $179 Pro-Q.

It has nothing to do with quality and in this case SPAN and ProQ are two completely different plugins so comparing their performance is pointless.

My point has been for a developer to brag their freeware plugin has more downloads or users (like they would even know) than a $179 plugin isn't a fair comparison. That's all.

I have SPAN installed because it's free but hardly ever use it because I have other options I prefer so does that make me a user, a download statistic, or just a plugin hoarder? I don't own Pro Q because that's more than I would pay for such a plugin. Get the point now?

Like I said Voxengo products are well respected here and have been for many years. It's not a comment on the quality of the plugins just a comment on the free vs pay user base comparison.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

And what I'm saying is that a free plugin is likely to have more users than a $179 plugin. The fact that you're guessing they have the same number of users is telling.

That's not the case if KVRAudio database is referred, there we have a hard number of mentions that most probably statistically correlates to the real userbase (e.g. 10 actual plugin users per 1 KVR database mention). I've just made a practical comparison between SPAN and ProQ popularity. FabFilter is obviously more popular than Voxengo in general, but that's irrelevant in this case. I've took 2 isolated plugins only. "Ugliness" and "beauty", and their KVR userbase is likely equal. Which brings me back to my post that "open hate speech" about Voxengo plugins is just exaggerated.

[rasmusklump]

The first thing that I do after a fresh cubase install is to deactivate the built-in voxengo EQ in the plugin manager.

[pixel85]

I love it how people are not even allowed to use plugins that are functional and good looking at the same time, because kvr users are upset about it

[CapnLockheed]

For me anyway....."look" is not just about aesthetics. I can use some "ugly" plugins like Valhalla & Voxengo because A) they sound good and B) the control layout makes sense. One of the problems with software, IMHO, is that devs are not bound by the same constraints as hardware designers.
If the control layout of a plugin's GUI is like finding myself on the bridge of a spaceship built by eight armed crawly things and I find that it's confusing and slows down my workflow.....into the dustbin it goes. Maybe some of the kiddies have no problem with it because they did not develop their workflows on hardware. Maybe it's just me but I prefer plugins that are at least as easy to use as comparable hardware.

Oh....and plugins with faux wood side panels just sound better.....LOL!!

[Aleksey Vaneev]

The first thing that I do after a fresh cubase install is to deactivate the built-in voxengo EQ in the plugin manager.

What is your honest reason for doing that?

[Teksonik]

And what I'm saying is that a free plugin is likely to have more users than a $179 plugin. The fact that you're guessing they have the same number of users is telling.

That's not the case if KVRAudio database is referred, there we have a hard number of mentions that most probably statistically correlates to the real userbase (e.g. 10 actual plugin users per 1 KVR database mention). I've just made a practical comparison between SPAN and ProQ popularity. FabFilter is obviously more popular than Voxengo in general, but that's irrelevant in this case. I've took 2 isolated plugins only. "Ugliness" and "beauty", and their KVR userbase is likely equal. Which brings me back to my post that "open hate speech" about Voxengo plugins is just exaggerated.

It's obvious you're not getting my point. Comparing the popularity a freeware plugin to a completely unrelated $179 plugin is just not statistically fair. End of story.

You compared SPAN to other freeware alternatives and that is fair. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

Again I have SPAN installed (just as I have dozens of other free plugins installed) but almost never use it because I have other options I prefer. I don't own or have never downloaded Pro-Q because $179 is more than I would pay for such a plugin.

You're a smart man, certainly you can see how comparing the two is not fair relating to "popularity".

If by "open hate speech" you mean people expressing negative opinions about your plugin GUIs then I think you're being overly sensitive.

I will express my opinion that I've always found Voxengo GUIs to be toy like and relatively outdated looking. They have gotten better now that we can knock the candy colors off of them with the skin editor but they still remain one of my least favorite examples of GUIs.

But that's just my opinion not "hate speech". Other people will no doubt disagree with my opinion and that's fine, we all have different personal preferences. I'm sure there are plenty of people who love Voxengo GUIs.

I make no comment on the sound quality or features and functions of Voxengo plugins. They are certainly fine quality plugins and I don't think you need to be so defensive about how popular they are overall just because some people don't like the GUIs.

Again Voxengo GUIs would not stop me from buying any of your plugins but they certainly don't inspire me to buy any.

If I found a Voxengo plugin that I like the sound of more than the sound of a plugin from another developer that has GUIs that I do like then I would certainly purchase the Voxengo offering, pricing being relatively the same.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

It's obvious you're not getting my point. Comparing the popularity a freeware plugin to a completely unrelated $179 plugin is just not statistically fair. End of story.

OK. Then can I wonder if you are trying to say that some "average user" will use something "ugly" if it's free? (I personally do not think it's how things work).

Expressing an attitude towards a product "I do not like its UI" is one thing, but calling it "toy-like" is obviously derogatory, hence my use of "hate speech" term.

[Teksonik]

It's obvious you're not getting my point. Comparing the popularity a freeware plugin to a completely unrelated $179 plugin is just not statistically fair. End of story.

OK. Then can I wonder if you are trying to say that some "average user" will use something "ugly" if it's free? (I personally do not think it's how things work).

Expressing an attitude towards a product "I do not like its UI" is one thing, but calling it "toy-like" is obviously derogatory, hence my use of "hate speech" term.

No I'm saying the average user is more likely to download something free despite its looks than buy a $179 EQ.

Sorry, I'm simply giving my opinion on your GUIs. I do find Voxengo plugins toy like in appearance and yes that is a derogatory term but that's my honest opinion, not intended to be hate at all. (You could view it as market feedback). It's the main reason I've never purchased one of your plugins. I've found alternatives whose sound I like as much or better and I find visually attractive. That's just a consumer making choices that suits them best not some form of "hate".

But I've also praised your plugins so that I guess falls under "love speech" by your definition so now we're even.

Again,you make some great plugins. I just don't personally like the interfaces. Not the end of the world as I am but one consumer......

[4damind]

To be honest, I find the Russian Voxengo plugins pretty ugly too I said years ago that I don't like the design (it always looks a bit toy-like). But if the functionality is good and there are no direct alternatives, I can live with it.
But like others, I prefer to work with well designed plugins. Almost everyone loves Fabfilter but if you ask exactly why, the first argument is almost always "they just look good"

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Totally no negativity on my side. The sales are too good to play a desperate victim of general misunderstanding. (except since stock markets are falling, and that always strains sales for a moment)

However, I would point out "downloading" is not equivalent to being a user and telling that to KVR.

[careyletendre]

The first thing that I do after a fresh cubase install is to deactivate the built-in voxengo EQ in the plugin manager.

What is your honest reason for doing that?

I don't mean to speak for rasmusklump, but I also remove CurveEQ from Cubase. I fully appreciate the respect that Voxengo plugins have in the community but I simply don't like how it looks. It may sound shallow but i simply can't help feelling that way. That's why i started this thread.

However I don't believe it is a case of judging a book by the cover. It simply is not a book that i wish to read even though it may be very well written.

Carey