Have we reached the end of hardware synths with software plug-ins?

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pixel85 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:41 am Hardware is more fun to use than software*. It's a fact. It's written in Bible and every other "saint book". Anyone who disagrees is simply unworthy and should be burned together with witches :P

*Even writing this makes people angry, which just proves that it's fun ;)
I must be some sort of special wizard then, because I have a room full of hardware (11 at last count) and I mostly interact with them via software editors. Expecto Patronum! :lol:

I fall for synths. Sometimes they are software, sometimes hardware. Not all software sound that great to me, as not all hardware sounds that great to me. I listened to an a-b demo of Mercury 4 vs. Jupiter 4, and it’s a bit of a joke. The Jupiter just sounds amazing all the time and the Mercury sounds decent sometimes, OK most of the time, and often just downright weak. Now, I’m not going to pay the lottery-winnings size price for a Jupiter 4, but I’m not going to buy the Cherry Audio version either. I’ll wait until another developer takes a crack at it, or Cherry Audio ups its game. I do love the sound of that synth. If you also love that sound, you have to buy the original hardware. (No, the Roland Cloud Promars doesn’t do it either.)

So it always comes down to that. If you don’t ever hear a hardware synth that excites you to the point of distraction, then you’re going to say they’re unnecessary, unless you’re the type that hates using a mouse. If I were interested in Trance, Dubstep and the like, I’d probably stick with software, because I think modern software sounds better than the classic VA used in Trance, and of course Dubstep was the place where Massive and FM8 were king.

Where most modern software falls down is in the dirty side of things, which is a characteristic that I really like. Even the exalted RePro sounds a bit tame and aliases at the top registers. Audio rate stuff also sounds a bit weak in software. Lastly, all my hardware does stuff that you don’t find in fixed architecture synths. I’ve yet to hear a convincing analog emulation that’s got a third envelope, for Flying Spaghetti Monster’s sake. All of my analogs have at least 3. The first thing I do when I buy a hardware synth is put it up against software and see what’s what. If I don’t find something that’s awesome about the hardware that isn’t well represented in software, it goes back.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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You need a Jupiter-4 Rev 1. This one has the discrete filters. Got one sitting next to me in mint condition and it would already be preserved digitally hadn't I have to deal with a whole different story already.

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hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.

of course, if you have the space (and that's where you do your work), nothing wrong with a room full of synthesizers. show me some good music, and i don't care whether it's software, hardware... or a bagpipes ensemble. whatever works, works.

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fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.
these days i do my best to leave the house as little as possible.
even before all the deadly plagues kicked off.

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Urs wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:38 pm You need a Jupiter-4 Rev 1. This one has the discrete filters. Got one sitting next to me in mint condition and it would already be preserved digitally hadn't I have to deal with a whole different story already.
Take my money $$$

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vurt wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:50 pm
fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.
these days i do my best to leave the house as little as possible.
even before all the deadly plagues kicked off.
no, i get it. but when i leave the den to work in the bedroom, or go to work in the livingroom, that portability matters... :D

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fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:59 pm
vurt wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:50 pm
fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.
these days i do my best to leave the house as little as possible.
even before all the deadly plagues kicked off.
no, i get it. but when i leave the den to work in the bedroom, or go to work in the livingroom, that portability matters... :D
phew! least you're staying safe :hug:

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vurt wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:00 pm
fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:59 pm
vurt wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:50 pm
fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.
these days i do my best to leave the house as little as possible.
even before all the deadly plagues kicked off.
no, i get it. but when i leave the den to work in the bedroom, or go to work in the livingroom, that portability matters... :D
phew! least you're staying safe :hug:
i dunno; when you add in the artists, managers, assistants, posses, friends, and relatives... the den gets pretty crowded. maybe we should stop passing the one bottle of vodka around?...

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sounds like a good idea :o

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teilo wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:20 pm
hebex wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:07 pm Yeah, I left out "in my opinion", because that´s a fact that needs no discussion. The VSTs of today which try to emulate the classic hardware synths like Moog, Oberheim, Prophet, etc, still, objectively, sound more digital.
"Facts" are funny things. Some people equate them with "opinions," without seeming to know the difference. "Objectively" this has been tested, and blind A/B testing on the best analog emulations has "objectively" proven you wrong.
Just so you're aware, I've yet to see any research other than what basically amounts to opinion polls. In other words, your "objective tests" are still just a limited set of opinions about a limited set of sounds with a limited set of people without proper experimental design or controls, and can't actually be generalized beyond the context and content within which they appear. At best.

However, if someone can point me to proper research, I'd happily stand corrected.

I may not be a professional musician, but I am a professional researcher.

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fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.

of course, if you have the space (and that's where you do your work), nothing wrong with a room full of synthesizers. show me some good music, and i don't care whether it's software, hardware... or a bagpipes ensemble. whatever works, works.
If you want portable, you're still lugging a lot around you don't need - just use an iPad with some headphones.

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vitocorleone123 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:26 pm
fisherKing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 pm hardware is (or can be amazing). but taking my macbook, a cme xkey, and headphones somewhere to work on music is an astonshing thing.

of course, if you have the space (and that's where you do your work), nothing wrong with a room full of synthesizers. show me some good music, and i don't care whether it's software, hardware... or a bagpipes ensemble. whatever works, works.
If you want portable, you're still lugging a lot around you don't need - just use an iPad with some headphones.
for me, carrying a laptop, tiny keyboard, and headphones is fine. i have no urgent need to go 'smaller' (otherwise, i could use an iphone and earbuds).

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zerocrossing wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:32 pm I think modern software sounds better than the classic VA used in Trance
Two questions:
- Can you hear up to 16kHz?
- Are you into Trance, like totally?

I can hear up to 16kHz and Trance is my favourite genre (besides anything from 70s and 80s ;) )that I grew up with. Just recently I came to a conclusion about why I don't enjoy modern Trance. It's because supersaws used in leads, arps and pads (often at the same time) have unpleasant high frequency (8kHz up) 'sizzle' (or 'mess'). It's something coming from plugins that are currently used in Trance music. I know, I know, JP8000 has tons of ear-piercing aliasing :) But older Trance music doesn't have this problem. Super/Hypersaws from Viruses and Nord Leads are more pleasant in high frequency range than from eg. Spire.
I don't know if I should blame plugins or the production process where high frequencies are boosted to their limits, instead of removing that unpleasant noise and leaving space for hi-hats.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the EDM world that can hear (and who cares about) frequencies above 12kHz ;) Maybe this is why I prefer Techno to Trance these days.

Ps. my hardware is not used when I'm working. Too much hassle, especially with analogs. But after work... tweaking hardware without looking at the screen of a computer is like a blessing for me :)

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pixel85 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:40 pm I can hear up to 16kHz and Trance is my favourite genre (besides anything from 70s and 80s ;) )that I grew up with. Just recently I came to a conclusion about why I don't enjoy modern Trance. It's because supersaws used in leads, arps and pads (often at the same time) have unpleasant high frequency (8kHz up) 'sizzle' (or 'mess'). It's something coming from plugins that are currently used in Trance music.
i can hear up to 17kHz, and i don't have this problem... 8)

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So Urs reveals that he can make a Jupiter-4 Rev. 1 plugin and we’re just going to walk on by?

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