CLAP... thoughts?

[ThomasHelzle]

From all I've read on KVR from different developers, if there is any format that should get blamed for wasting peoples time it's VST3. It's out for about 14 (?) years and not even the big players are all done with porting and there is hardly any benefit ...

Next in line is probably Apples shenanigans with all their code signing, M1 transition and general being an ever-changing system that needs a LOT of attention.

From what URS and other devs wrote, CLAP is actually fun to work with and fast to implement as well as allowing new features for the end user and general improvements in performance.

VST3 doesn't do anything for me VST2 didn't and actually took some things away, like proper Midi support...

Sometimes somebody has to sit down and do the work so that things can continue to evolve in a meaningful way instead of stagnate due to some gatekeepers "wisdom" (otherwise known as being a general pain in the behind).

Cheers,

Tom

[fisherKing]

Next in line is probably Apples shenanigans with all their code signing, M1 transition and general being an ever-changing system that needs a LOT of attention.

code signing is bad because? and developing seriously-improved chips is bad because?

progress is good, and apple at least keeps things moving forward (and, disclaimer: there are things i don't like about the mac OS). but i do appreciate progress.

[Blaster]

Next in line is probably Apples shenanigans with all their code signing, M1 transition and general being an ever-changing system that needs a LOT of attention.

code signing is bad because? and developing seriously-improved chips is bad because?

progress is good, and apple at least keeps things moving forward (and, disclaimer: there are things i don't like about the mac OS). but i do appreciate progress.

I think he meant in the way that all existing products needed to be updated, with new installers provided etc. Just extra work for no gain in the way of extra features, bug fixes, etc.

[ThomasHelzle]

^^^^

[Wrong Eq]

Next in line is probably Apples shenanigans with all their code signing, M1 transition and general being an ever-changing system that needs a LOT of attention.

code signing is bad because? and developing seriously-improved chips is bad because?

progress is good, and apple at least keeps things moving forward (and, disclaimer: there are things i don't like about the mac OS). but i do appreciate progress.

Because of constantly breaking backwards compatibility and adding unneeded complexity and hassle.

You don't need the reckless Apple corporation for "progress" (Whatever that means in detail) by the way. The M1 chips are nothing special.

[koalaboy]

Code signing is great if done in an open-source and accessible way. It helps provide integrity.

Code signing is really bad if I have to pay money and jump through hoops if I write some code on my machine and want to just give it to a friend to run on theirs, or have to build on a specific operating system rather than easily cross-compile.

[fisherKing]

The M1 chips are nothing special.

because? just saying something doesn't make it true. and promise this isn't yet another 'mac vs pc' thing, because that is so old...

EDIT: lol, this is SO off-topic. if you want to whine about macs, find the right forum and start your own thread...

[Wrong Eq]

The M1 chips are nothing special.

because? just saying something doesn't make it true. and promise this isn't yet another 'mac vs pc' thing, because that is so old...

EDIT: lol, this is SO off-topic. if you want to whine about macs, find the right forum and start your own thread...

Dude, I can throw your stupid "becauses" right back at you. Look at the benchmarks, problem solved. The M1 is a great CPU but it's not that it obliterates other offerings on the market, particularly when it comes to audio processing.

[Hink]

but like he said this wont turn into a mac vs pc thread...read the title very carefully...it's about CLAP, please stay on topic.

[vurt]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I re-installed Uhbik last night and noticed the disclaimer about the VST3 still being in an experimental stage, citing issues with porting it over from VST2.4, which is exactly one of the problems CLAP has been developed to overcome. It's quite possible, although in a slightly roundabout way, that CLAP will actually help you realise your own selfish ends, not hinder them

I sure hope so.

Well it's reasonable to assume that Urs wouldn't waste time on CLAP if wasn't in his interest to do so. Maybe it will be a bit painful with some delays in the short term, but it's worth it, if future development/support is smoother in the long term.

in the audiothing wires thread, he mentions that it was a lot easier than he imagined porting to clap, and will be adding clap support for the past stuff with newer updates.

so maybe it's not as painful as some think to get it done, obviously, i don't code at all, so maybe there are issues with other code languages that may take more time... but it seems so far, that any delays will be minimal once it picks up.

obviously the people coding "clap" have spent extra time getting it to this point, but i don't think urs would waste his time, he obviously thinks this is a worthwhile venture, and as i know he and his team do quality work, i feel i can trust their judgement

[Arashi]

Dude, I can throw your stupid "becauses" right back at you. Look at the benchmarks, problem solved. The M1 is a great CPU but it's not that it obliterates other offerings on the market, particularly when it comes to audio processing.

Take it somewhere else, please. Mac vs. PC doesn't belong in this thread.

[Hink]

plz report it if you see and I will deal with it...I cant be here 24/7

[audiothing]

in the audiothing wires thread, he mentions that it was a lot easier than he imagined porting to clap, and will be adding clap support for the past stuff with newer updates.

Yes, it was incredibly easy porting to CLAP. We use JUCE and the bulk of the work was done by the guys here: https://github.com/free-audio/clap-juce-extensions
Now, implementing CLAP-only features might require a bit more time and testing, but you can easily build a CLAP from a JUCE project (either Projucer or CMake) even if it's not officially supported yet.

A bit more context here: https://www.audiothing.net/blog/clap-plugin-porting/

[rollasoc]

So essentially a load of developers will code for CLAP and then wrap the CLAP code in a VST3 wrapper to apease the Steinberg overlords.

How much latency will this wrapper approach add?

[Held]

So essentially a load of developers will code for CLAP and then wrap the CLAP code in a VST3 wrapper to apease the Steinberg overlords.

How much latency will this wrapper approach add?

Since this happens at compile time, none I would assume.