◬ All Our Sins ◬ (Instrumental / EDM / Synth1 / One Synth)

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:24 am

◬ All Our Sins ◬

https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/all-our-sins

My One Synth Challenge submission for OSC#161 / July 22 featuring Synth1.
If you're no familiar with the genre of hardstyle you might want to listen to some youttube vids of keltec or Mrs k8 or Defqon festival.
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Track was updated: 09.07.2022
--
Production Notes:
All Sounds are synthesized, no samples used. Only Synth used is Synth1. Many presets are fom Init. But I choose some excellent presets from the packages coming with synth1.
Produced in Bitwig 4.3 Beta 6. Mostly Bitwig and Free FX accompanied by a few selected commercial FX from MeldaProduction (MLimiterX and MLimiterMB ...). And as always there's at least one instance of Valhalla SuperMassive and LoudMax :-)

Enjoy and Let me know what you think.
【peter:H】
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:36 am, edited 4 times in total.

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ChameleonMusic
KVRAF
1611 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:09 am

Good listen Peter...enjoyed it!

Loads of driving energy and everything syncs together very effectively in terms of the overall groove.


Small Points and always just opinion:

Playing along with it, I think the elements that I felt could be tweaked significantly were the main melodic phrases?

1) At times there were too many notes in there for my ears and the melodic flow became a little lost here and there. In the middle (where there are lots of little pauses in the tune) it worked VERY effectively indeed.

2) Linked to point 1, certain note choices jarred very slightly with the underlying harmonies...could they have been just left out or maybe moved to other pitches?

3) I wasn't 100% sold on the timbre used for the lead at the beginning...i wanted it layered with something that had a bit more sustain so that certain key notes could be lengthened?

Production worked well overall...warm and punchy.

Possibly needed a little bit more shine at the top end? But of course that might be a deliberate choice?

Possibly a little bit of mid-side processing to focus the bass energy a touch more to the centre?
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:34 am

Awesome, ChameleonMusic! Thanks for your fresh ears and your feedback.
Everything is exactly as you say.
ChameleonMusic wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:09 am Good listen Peter...enjoyed it!

Loads of driving energy and everything syncs together very effectively in terms of the overall groove.


Small Points and always just opinion:

Playing along with it, I think the elements that I felt could be tweaked significantly were the main melodic phrases?

1) At times there were too many notes in there for my ears and the melodic flow became a little lost here and there. In the middle (where there are lots of little pauses in the tune) it worked VERY effectively indeed.
I'm so bad in writing good melodies. I really envy some hardstyle producers that throw out goose-bump invoking melody after melody ... Damn, still lots of room for me to improve!
2) Linked to point 1, certain note choices jarred very slightly with the underlying harmonies...could they have been just left out or maybe moved to other pitches?
I read your feedback away from home and though nah, he must be wrong... and now I sit again in front of my DAW and stare in disbelief into the piana role ... facepalm ... you are right! I mixed up some things hard.
3) I wasn't 100% sold on the timbre used for the lead at the beginning...i wanted it layered with something that had a bit more sustain so that certain key notes could be lengthened?
Next thing I'm bad at. These hardstyle super-super-saws. I used already a bunch of layers but still not the sound I want... I'm going to work on it.
Production worked well overall...warm and punchy.

Possibly needed a little bit more shine at the top end? But of course that might be a deliberate choice?

Possibly a little bit of mid-side processing to focus the bass energy a touch more to the centre?
Thanks :tu: Working o the shine as well!

Wow, that was a lot of good points, ChameleonMusic. Thanks so much!

User avatar
Frantz
KVRAF
5820 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:12 pm

It's unbelievable how many sounds you were able to get out of Synth1. Hardstyle is a bit bombastic for my tastes but that's just me.

Super entertaining track, great job! :tu:

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Medvedium
KVRist
96 posts since 8 Jan, 2022 from Великая Россия

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:27 pm

I don't follow the development of jumpstyle/hardstyle, and after I heard once a chill/downtempo subgenre of hardcore (!!!), I assume that anything is possible now in fresh turns of this style...

But - from p.o.v of balance and common sense, I have a couple of thoughts to say:

- probably it's okay now that the kick contains less bass and boomy freqs and gives the energy only by distorted low-mid harmonics and rhythmic synths, so the soundesign of the kick I won't comment, but nevertheless the groove in dance tracks should be louder than leads, - but now it's vice versa.

- too many variations for dance track imho, not enough minimalism, again maybe it's okay now for this subgenre, but I still doubt... - I suggest you to take (at least) 5 top-hits in this genre and literally count length of their musical phrases (in bars), quantity of them, number of variations etc... I think what is good for pop song may be bad for club track

I don't think that 1-synth competition is good way to produce commercial quality track, though it is obviously a good training exercise, so let me not to mention soundesign (which is pretty okay btw)...

And there's a thing about tonal mismatches - when the deep bass plays role of harmony, pianoroll mistakes may be not so ear-cutting, 'cause people feel tonality in low end worse than in mids, that's why I don't complain about tonal mismatches here - they arent ear-cutting, probably that's why you didn't notice them ))

In common your melodies are very good, and you feel the drive and vibe - just need to get to know to better control and shape them ))

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:52 am

Medvedium wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:27 pm I don't follow the development of jumpstyle/hardstyle, and after I heard once a chill/downtempo subgenre of hardcore (!!!), I assume that anything is possible now in fresh turns of this style...

But - from p.o.v of balance and common sense, I have a couple of thoughts to say:

- probably it's okay now that the kick contains less bass and boomy freqs and gives the energy only by distorted low-mid harmonics and rhythmic synths, so the soundesign of the kick I won't comment, but nevertheless the groove in dance tracks should be louder than leads, - but now it's vice versa.

- too many variations for dance track imho, not enough minimalism, again maybe it's okay now for this subgenre, but I still doubt... - I suggest you to take (at least) 5 top-hits in this genre and literally count length of their musical phrases (in bars), quantity of them, number of variations etc... I think what is good for pop song may be bad for club track

I don't think that 1-synth competition is good way to produce commercial quality track, though it is obviously a good training exercise, so let me not to mention soundesign (which is pretty okay btw)...

And there's a thing about tonal mismatches - when the deep bass plays role of harmony, pianoroll mistakes may be not so ear-cutting, 'cause people feel tonality in low end worse than in mids, that's why I don't complain about tonal mismatches here - they arent ear-cutting, probably that's why you didn't notice them ))

In common your melodies are very good, and you feel the drive and vibe - just need to get to know to better control and shape them ))
You are right with every point, Medvedium

Bass of Basedrum: I mix a lot via headphones. If I use my monitor speakers and turn them up, I get complaints... and no food for weeks :wink: :lol:

too many variations: yes, this is due to my track is a submission for a one synth challenge. The majority of one synth challenge participants loves to have their chords and melodies. If I go full hardstyle I would end up very low in the voting.

tonal mismatches: Yes, damn ... stupid that I missed that and thanks for pointing it out. that's really bad. In the mean time I have worked on the track a little and updated it.

melodies are very good: Thanks 🙏, that is very encouraging!

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tomtom1
KVRian
705 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am

Overall really impressive what you got out of the Synth1. (I used it only once). You have already got a deeper analysis by Mark. So everything is said already :D I wish you good luck!
it is better to have a track with some mistakes than a track without any soul
myself in 2022

User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
7153 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:50 pm

This is so awesome man. Love it.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali

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] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:55 am

tomtom1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am Overall really impressive what you got out of the Synth1. (I used it only once). You have already got a deeper analysis by Mark. So everything is said already :D I wish you good luck!
Thanks, tomtom! :tu:
I have updated the track meanwhile trying to incorporate the feedbacks.
Damn ... fresh ears are really so importand...and I feel stupid for some obvious mistakes :-(

User avatar
tomtom1
KVRian
705 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:00 am

] Peter:H [ wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:55 am
tomtom1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am Overall really impressive what you got out of the Synth1. (I used it only once). You have already got a deeper analysis by Mark. So everything is said already :D I wish you good luck!
Thanks, tomtom! :tu:
I have updated the track meanwhile trying to incorporate the feedbacks.
Damn ... fresh ears are really so importand...and I feel stupid for some obvious mistakes :-(
It wasn't that bad . Sometimes you get used to some things, over time during the making.
it is better to have a track with some mistakes than a track without any soul
myself in 2022

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Medvedium
KVRist
96 posts since 8 Jan, 2022 from Великая Россия

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:54 am

Sounds more integral now, much better )

A couple of thoughts about mixing:
- bass sounds like a wall, probably it'd be better to split its notes subtly, giving some room - I use free gate sequencer A1 Trigger Gate for such cases, drawing rhythmically suitable sequence, controlling mix amount and micro pause lengths. Any volume shaper also will do...
- mids of the kick/bass conflict with lead synth and mask some other things. I don't know how pro producers solve it in this particular subgenre - do they sidechain lead under kick or band sidechain kick under lead, or by other means - references gonna answer...

Rene Asologuitar
KVRist
486 posts since 2 Apr, 2022

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:29 am

This is a very good workout music.
Very active and melodic tones.
Love all the instruments introduced.
This is super nice.
Rene

User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:36 am

Medvedium wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:54 am Sounds more integral now, much better )

A couple of thoughts about mixing:
- bass sounds like a wall, probably it'd be better to split its notes subtly, giving some room - I use free gate sequencer A1 Trigger Gate for such cases, drawing rhythmically suitable sequence, controlling mix amount and micro pause lengths. Any volume shaper also will do...
- mids of the kick/bass conflict with lead synth and mask some other things. I don't know how pro producers solve it in this particular subgenre - do they sidechain lead under kick or band sidechain kick under lead, or by other means - references gonna answer...
Thanks Medvedium for listening again. Your help is much appreciated! :tu: :tu: :tu:
Really cool, to slowley iterate to a way better track with your help...
Uploaded an update a minute ago which tries to incorporate your feedback. And I did some little changes on top ... hope they help the track as well.

User avatar
Medvedium
KVRist
96 posts since 8 Jan, 2022 from Великая Россия

Post Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:46 am

I hear that the arrangement is a bit more interesting now, less occasional variations help a listener to follow the main theme.

About the mixing - sounds much clearer now, but the kick/bass lost its punch, as I remember it has had a lot of it in previous version (though with the long bad tail).

I think the references would be now better advisers... Isolate reference kick and bass in arrangement + filter, compare your kik/bass and try to reproduce the same sound qualities. Make a loop where there are 2 beats of your kick and 2 beats of reference kick, and start tweaking ))

Also some tutorials about "how to hardstyle kick" will help - tons of them on youtube ))

Also I'm not sure about percussion - if it's okay for the genre to have less percs/hats, and not to make them bright (as the synths already fully cover the high end) - then okay, again references will answer...

User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRAF
Topic Starter
1636 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:34 am

Rene Asologuitar wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:29 am This is a very good workout music.
Very active and melodic tones.
Love all the instruments introduced.
This is super nice.
Rene
Hey Rene, thanks a lot! It was hard to tame Synth1. Good to read that the effort paid out ... appreciate your feedback and all the help offered by other guys listening carefully and giving tips!

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