switch from bitwig to another daw

[apoclypse]

That's subjective. I don't think its significantly better just because it can be done in the launcher. I mean its cool but I'd rather a complete experience than a half baked one. If you work in a linear DAW Ableton's comping is comparable and pretty feature complete compared to Bitwig's.

I didn't say it's better only because of being able to comp in the launcher. That is just one reason. There are a number of other significant reasons as well.

Anyway, you aren't interested in the subject, so no point to go on with it.

I am interested int he subject which is why I responded to you otherwise I would have ignored you. Your point that is better is subjective. You assert that clip based comping is better but don't actually quantify how or why that matters. You then go on to talk about future unimplemented features like that makes Bitwig's implementation better but its just incomplete. Ableton's implementation of comping is very similar to other DAWs like Cubase, Logic, reason etc. and overall is pretty complete robust. While I like Bitwig's group based (what you call clip based) comping, whether its better is subjective.

Btiwig's clip based approach to audio has its caveats as well and it's certainly not as well implemented, imo, as Studio One's audio groups in a lot of aspects. So if you are going to say that audio comping is better than Ableton you need to follow up with an objective reason why that's the case.

[machinesworking]

Hmm? so I should wait around for MIDI comping in Bitwig because eventually it will be better than Lives… nope, not buying that argument. Right now Lives MIDI comping is not vaporware, what bitwig has is more like a looping device than comping, and it’s not that appealing to me sorry.

Of course Bitwig does not currently have midi comping. Bitwig's audio comping is significantly better than Live's audio comping. That's the point I'm making. And it makes a difference for me that I can do audio comping in the Clip Launcher. Live is restricted to Arrange.

If I'm doing anything complex with audio comping, I'm doing it in DP.

If I'm doing MIDI comping I'm using Live.

I don't care about Bitwig's comping, I found it really geared more towards experimentation over the usual reasons for comping features in the first place. I didn't think it stood up to traditional DAW comping like DP and Logic, and although I appreciate that you can comp in Clips, it's not an imperative that I be able to do that for me.

Quite honestly I'm having a hard time saying much good about Bitwig right now, I've never seen a company do so many stupid and greedy moves in one fell swoop. Changing the wording to fit their new "update model", even their statement, just a total shit show. I'm not comfortable using software from developers that think they can rewrite agreements and change their update plan with people after advertising their update plan just what? a week ago? It was already the most expensive DAW I own to keep updated, even with playing my cards close to the edge like I did. Luckily enough I did not update my plan, if I had I would have been ballistic about this.

I've used Live on and off for 18 years, recently before all this I've been mentally debating between the two, there are distinct advantages to both, but one thing is very clear, in all those years Ableton never pulled anything like this. They've always been very straightforward about what you get. That's probably the clincher for me, I'll go with the ethically stronger performer over some features I might like.

I don't see them rectifying this, they're probably going to just wait it out and hope it blows over, which IMO is going to sink the push they've been getting lately. Hopefully for you and others it doesn't sink them completely, but anything is possible. It seems like a desperate money grab, and bad moves doing so has sunk many a company.

[EnGee]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

[dupont]

In Logic, it is hidden by default. I actually didn't use it that much in Logic because traditionally it is a linear DAW, but it is good it is there just in case I need it

I've used the clip launcher in Logic a handful of times mostly to test it out when it first came out. Other than that I don't use it all. The hardware integration is just not as good as Live or Bitwig and I personally hate using an iPad to tap at clips. Logic needs better hardware support with scripting. I think they have some sort of scripting engine but not many manufacturers are using it and its not that well documented.

Yes indeed, I can't use all the fonctionnality of mu=u APC 40 with logic as I can with Bitwig or logic.

[Held]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

[Trancit]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Don´t distort the reality and try to compare them both!!

Yes, Image Line has beside FL Studio the plugin department for making income... but they never charged a cent for any update to finance that development!!!!

IL never promised "All software updates for free" and said afterwards... oh sorry, we changed our minds... after you have paid the most money on the market for getting updates we silently and afterwards change our promise to just Bitwig updates for free!!!

I am not sure if this is even legal!

[musikarldererste]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Don´t distort the reality and try to compare them both!!

Yes, Image Line has beside FL Studio the plugin department for making income... but they never charged a cent for any update to finance that development!!!!

IL never promised "All software updates for free" and said afterwards... oh sorry, we changed our minds... after you have paid the most money on the market for getting updates we silently and afterwards change our promise to just Bitwig updates for free!!!

I am not sure if this is even legal!

for imegaline has the best offer
you will get all updates for free , so one payment

and not a wired pop up menu that force you to upgrade

i really love fl studio right now
dont use bitwig anamyore i fully switched



the shitstorm that bitwig got is irreparable and saying nothing doesn't make things any better

a big f**k you to bitwig

[EnGee]

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Image Line sells synths and effects since a long time! They only dropped the VST versions from the shop as far as I know, but for example, I have Harmor and it still works well now inside and outside FLS! The only difference is that you can't sell FL Studio (neither Logic which has free updates for years now!).

But yes! Bitwig behaviour is not acceptable I agree with you.

[Held]

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Don´t distort the reality and try to compare them both!!

Yes, Image Line has beside FL Studio the plugin department for making income... but they never charged a cent for any update to finance that development!!!!

IL never promised "All software updates for free" and said afterwards... oh sorry, we changed our minds... after you have paid the most money on the market for getting updates we silently and afterwards change our promise to just Bitwig updates for free!!!

I am not sure if this is even legal!

That's exactly what I said. I just used less words...

[flori89]

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Sorry to interject here on behalf of FL Studio, but no they absolutely don't do the same thing. Because FL Studio doesn't require an update fee, you get all updates to FL Studio for free. And they have been keeping that promise for 24 years, so it's kind of unlikely they'll start breaking that promise now.

[D-Fusion]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Don´t distort the reality and try to compare them both!!

Yes, Image Line has beside FL Studio the plugin department for making income... but they never charged a cent for any update to finance that development!!!!

IL never promised "All software updates for free" and said afterwards... oh sorry, we changed our minds... after you have paid the most money on the market for getting updates we silently and afterwards change our promise to just Bitwig updates for free!!!

I am not sure if this is even legal!

They can do this to new buyers and those that have to Renew their Upgrade Plan.

But those that still are on a upgrade Plan had another Deal and Contract with a promise of "All future software updates included" until that Upgrade plan runs out.

But they decided to Change the text to "All Bitwig Studio updates" instead which is a breach of contract for those that still have a active Upgrade Plan.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220923055 ... g.com/buy/
how would you call it... happy accident, Bitwig, Bitwig... m'eh

Changing the wording on the Buy page and try to hide what was promised is not a good business practice.

[Held]

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Sorry to interject here on behalf of FL Studio, but no they absolutely don't do the same thing. Because FL Studio doesn't require an update fee, you get all updates to FL Studio for free. And they have been keeping that promise for 24 years, so it's kind of unlikely they'll start breaking that promise now.

FL Studio doesn't include new effects or instruments in its updates. So the current Bitwig add-on/update would not have been offered for free in FL Studio.

[FapFilter]

FL Studio doesn't include new effects or instruments in its updates. So the current Bitwig add-on/update would not have been offered for free in FL Studio.

it does.
it might not come with "granular this, spectral that" with every single release, but there has still a ton of great stuff been added, since i was last toying with it in 2008 or so.

[Held]

FL Studio doesn't include new effects or instruments in its updates. So the current Bitwig add-on/update would not have been offered for free in FL Studio.

it does.
it might not come with "granular this, spectral that" with every single release, but there has still a ton of great stuff been added, since i was last toying with it in 2008 or so.

Do I get everything, new in FL Studio, for free?

Not everything: Sometimes we develop new software synthesizers or effects and offer them as optional add-on purchases. You will notice, from the feature comparison, different versions of FL Studio have different core features and plugin bundles.

[chk071]

I wonder, how Image Line could update FLS all these years without taking a cent from its clients?! They depend on new sales only!

I think we (as customers) should be hard on upgrade prices, because I believe now that we are just being fools!

Although I have only the 16 tracks version of Bitwig and thought to keep my plan current, now (after reading how they have changed the agreement) I think I won't be bothered again with Bitwig.

Pity! Because I think the CLAPS project will be affected negatively (just a guess if many feel negative towards Bitwig).

Image Line does exactly what Bitwig is doing now. Charge existing customers for new instruments and FX which is fine. The issue is that Bitwig is changing the agreement retroactively which is not okay.

Just FYI: All these agreements are subject to change. They have to be, if one day they find out that it doesn't apply to existing or future laws. Or they simply find out that it's not something which works for them to make a living.