Did music theory help you much with chords etc?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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Timaeus wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am I'm using the same melodic ideas, in both sections, but the bass progression and chord progression feel like... a different mode? All I know aside from that is it sounds cool, and that I managed that happy accident without successfully analyzing what I did afterwards because of the musical intuition I gained from writing for 11 years, but without sufficient music theory knowledge.
Nice example! It indeed sounds interesting and a little bit "mysterious"?
I can imagine how something like that happens. For me, this sometimes even starts with a mistake - copying some loop somewhere it wasn't originally meant to be, for example.

However, there seems to be a limit to this. Do a few unexpected / unfamiliar things and it becomes interesting. Do too much of it, and people will find it annoying and can't relate to it as music anymore. But that's a really interesting part of music. In the end, it's a huge collection of patterns and pattern restrictions (genres) and you can really play around and stretch some of those. A few genius people even create new patterns (which isn't possible if you stick to already established ones)
Find my (music) related software projects here: github.com/Fannon

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a happy accident is something you can consistently count on, is it

I write things no one is likely to be able to analyze, & so_what?
It’s a pretty clear logical fallacy to point to one example like that makes an overarching point. Let’s call it Ultra-hasty Generalization.

OTOH we could talk about all the music that is understood well that’s beyond one’s ability to deal, and this can be about you as well if that’s where we’re headed. :roll:

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It’s like if we have a thread in another sub forum, does understanding how compression actually works help your mixing, and someone goes off on how it’s so much better not to, just goof around and wait for the happy accidents.

Versus a simple ‘no (I have plenty of presets).’.

But one is proud of not knowing how the difference in their own two objects works.

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I'm not trying to suggest that music theory is suddenly unnecessary, of course. Simply that it's not required to post-analyze to write music you enjoy. So I don't see that as a logical fallacy if it establishes my point---the point being that people can still write good music that they don't understand. (If "one" example makes for your logical fallacy threshold, I'd rather not advertise too much of my own music to present many examples here for the sake of you know... not self-advertising.)

Similarly, using your choice of compression as an example, sure, I don't understand the mechanics of compression at whatever a graduate level would be, but I understand how to use it, how not to use it, and how to adjust it to sound good, and that's good enough for me.

I'm sure you get my point already, so I'd rather avoid having an extended argument over this.
- Timaeus

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Life’s too short for more of this quality of exchange, so I guess I should wrap it up.

NB: For the wider readership (and some might be surprised here) I sought to shore up the usefulness of ‘music theory’ knowledge on a subforum set aside at KVR Audio Forum for the subject.

Here, the more noticeable outcome of the one arguing like knowing would only get in the way is a series of mistaken assumptions: theory used like a recipe or like consulting a how-to manual while writing; that it’s going to pigeonhole one into being stuck with correctness; that people with the chops you ain’t got are “analyzing” (according to what, do you think? You haven’t studied music theory.) midstream.

So, keep telling yourself this stuff, it’s on you, your own growth…
I’m a bit taken aback by this attitude after “11 years”, frankly.

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No, we internalize what we learn (forgetting everything in the moment of creation) in order to work freely. It’s practice towards a praxis, is all. Same as any type of muscle development.

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Fannon wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:58 am
Timaeus wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am happy accident
Nice example! It indeed sounds interesting and a little bit "mysterious"?
I can imagine how something like that happens. For me, this sometimes even starts with a mistake
I appreciate your effort to coax or cajole instead of hard criticism… I’m sorry, but the resistance seems quite strong here and this is a flaw of mine.

One bit I did I really go for will never have happened but for a big mistake doing a pitch bend. The sonority that came out of it amazed me. Knowing one or three things doesn’t preclude f**king up. I went on ahead with it. But, I arranged other parts with it and joined the two sections, and trust me, knowing what it is cut way down if not eliminated guesswork. It’s in between pitches in normal tuning. A naïf might have just deleted it it’s so incorrect. I had enough confidence, aka not giving a f**k, to see where it led me. Experience and knowledge of… intonations and such was useful, and my field of vision as it were was expanded.

It’s more fun this way. :)

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Learning any amount of theory isn't going to make someone a great songwriter, but it can only help.

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jancivil wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:39 pm
Fannon wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:58 am
Timaeus wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am happy accident
Nice example! It indeed sounds interesting and a little bit "mysterious"?
I can imagine how something like that happens. For me, this sometimes even starts with a mistake
I appreciate your effort to coax or cajole instead of hard criticism… I’m sorry, but the resistance seems quite strong here and this is a flaw of mine.
Didn't really get what you mean? From my side, no hard criticism intended. Just an affirmation that what you describes happens and is a nice thing.
Find my (music) related software projects here: github.com/Fannon

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instead of my approach, hard criticism. Honestly, if the person can be reached, my way isn’t very good. IE: people are rarely persuaded against their (cherished) position, and if it’s done, tends to require coaxing, even flattering.

The initial question is already passing strange to me, though.

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