CLAP public preview revision 13510 (ACE, Bazille, Diva, Hive)

[pdxindy]

just as a follow-up I had same issue without Multicore turned on - same patch - Mellow Monster - still leads to no audio output

<edit> the 2nd part I wrote and then deleted was incorrect - it was my user error. The bit I've left in still seems to be correct though.

I've had the same thing while creating my own sounds from init... no multicore on. So far I have not found a way to reliably reproduce it so have been waiting on sending a bug report.

[tasmaniandevil]

just as a follow-up I had same issue without Multicore turned on - same patch - Mellow Monster - still leads to no audio output

I've had the same thing while creating my own sounds from init... no multicore on. So far I have not found a way to reliably reproduce it so have been waiting on sending a bug report.

Interesting, over here there have been no issues so far when keeping multicore disabled. Guess we'll have to dig deeper.
What computer are you using, Mac (Intel or Silicon), Windows, or Linux?
And which sample rate are you using in your projects?

[pdxindy]

just as a follow-up I had same issue without Multicore turned on - same patch - Mellow Monster - still leads to no audio output

I've had the same thing while creating my own sounds from init... no multicore on. So far I have not found a way to reliably reproduce it so have been waiting on sending a bug report.

Interesting, over here there have been no issues so far when keeping multicore disabled. Guess we'll have to dig deeper.
What computer are you using, Mac (Intel or Silicon), Windows, or Linux?
And which sample rate are you using in your projects?

Mac... 16" MacBook Pro M1-Pro. 96khz was the sample-rate of the project. Bitwig 4.4.2 and CLAP Bazille 13510

I was using the Sequencer as the Osc and an Osc going to Rotate and then Rotate modulated by a Bitwig modulator (Steps). I'm back from traveling so will try further to reproduce it (by that I mean enjoy using CLAP Bazille... hehehe)

[Buckster]

just as a follow-up I had same issue without Multicore turned on - same patch - Mellow Monster - still leads to no audio output

I've had the same thing while creating my own sounds from init... no multicore on. So far I have not found a way to reliably reproduce it so have been waiting on sending a bug report.

Interesting, over here there have been no issues so far when keeping multicore disabled. Guess we'll have to dig deeper.
What computer are you using, Mac (Intel or Silicon), Windows, or Linux?
And which sample rate are you using in your projects?

Thankyou - mine is Windows 10 (overclocked 3770k) - sample rate of 48khz

I'll have a bit more of an experiment later.

I didn't have much free time last night but I did try the latest CLAP version of DIVA and had no issues

Many thanks

[tasmaniandevil]

Thanks a lot for the additional details, pdxindy and Buckster.
Will dig some deeper, trying to find out why it only happens with MC enabled over here. Weird.

[SaganTech]

I only tried with hive so far. While Hive supports CLAP_NOTE_DIALECT_CLAP it does not respond to CLAP_NOTE_EXPRESSION_TUNING.

Hi Jeremy, I've asked the developers, will let you know asap (might take until Monday, though).

Any news? And what about a CLAP version of Zebra, is that going to happen?

[pdxindy]

Thanks a lot for the additional details, pdxindy and Buckster.
Will dig some deeper, trying to find out why it only happens with MC enabled over here. Weird.

I had the sound in Bazille die in Bitwig again today... I dragged the track to a new project and then it worked fine. I still don't have a reliable method to cause the issue.

[tasmaniandevil]

Any news? And what about a CLAP version of Zebra, is that going to happen?

You are not forgotten, Jeremy. We've just been insanely busy with the preparation of the Zebra Legacy release that happened yesterday.
Will ask the developers again today (but one of them is on vacation this week).

Zebra2 will also get a CLAP version, we are planning CLAP support for all our products, but it will likely happen one by one, so one plugin after another, rather than releasing an update for all plugins at once.

[Urs]

I only tried with hive so far. While Hive supports CLAP_NOTE_DIALECT_CLAP it does not respond to CLAP_NOTE_EXPRESSION_TUNING. Thus in CLAP_NOTE_DIALECT_CLAP hive, as far as I can tell, cannot be effectively used with a standard MIDI controller's pitch bend wheel. What is the recommended way to use Hive (from the host's perspective) in CLAP_NOTE_DIALECT_CLAP so that it responds to pitch bend and modulation wheel from a standard MIDI controller? The Hive GUI pitch bend wheel is responsive. Hive works perfectly fine with CLAP_EVENT_MIDI dialect.

Sorry, I hadn't had any time to look into it to give any final statement.

Unlike AU or VST3, the high level equivalent of pitch bend uses absolute pitch values. This goes against the concept of our sound design principles where the sound designer can set reasonable constraints for pitch bend. E.g. a sound designer can make it bend only a part of the patch, to change relative tuning of oscillators. A general and absolute event mechanism can not be used that way. Therefore we will very likely switch to MIDI only (adding MPE later) for CLAP.

[SaganTech]

I have two thoughts on this. Why not just clip the bend at the user specified (or in your case, sound designers) maximum? To me this is a much more ideal solution as the bend wheel from a MIDI controller will at least work. The other thought, why not have an extension or a change in CLAP to allow limits on pitch bends? It is nice that CLAP allows the host to set the pitch bend range without the user having to figure out where the setting is in any given plug-in's UI.

[Urs]

Well, CLAP is quite clear about Note Expressions for pitch. If a host maps MIDI Pitchbend to Note Expressions, it's Note Expressions what we get, and the only thing one can do with it is to adhere to the standard and change the pitch of a note/channel/globally to whatever the event specifies.

In our software we use MIDI Pitchbend as a raw 14 bit controller that we assume to be sent from a pitch wheel of a synth or keyboard. The sound designer is free to use this in any way they see fit, including things that have no effect on pitch at all, for instance in sounds that have no perceivable pitch.

[Urs]

If I find the time I'll query the developer community for best practices.

It seems to me that plainly mapping MIDI Pitchbend to Note Expressions isn't exactly a desirable thing. I think it should always be a musician's choice to either enforce a desired interval (Note Expression) or have the controller be part of the sound design (synth setting, therefore MIDI Pitchbend).

[Tj Shredder]

Only for MPE it makes much more sense to have the note expressions, you never want to have them different. Keyboards with a pitch wheel are a completely different mind set. There you might want different ranges for different music pieces...
Why not let the user decide? I need MPE pitch bends, thus expression...

[robbert-vdh]

If I find the time I'll query the developer community for best practices.

It seems to me that plainly mapping MIDI Pitchbend to Note Expressions isn't exactly a desirable thing. I think it should always be a musician's choice to either enforce a desired interval (Note Expression) or have the controller be part of the sound design (synth setting, therefore MIDI Pitchbend).

Btw even with CLAP pitch expressions, MIDI pitch bends are still a thing in CLAP if you support both CLAP and MIDI events. And they both have different semantics. It would probably still require changes to the synth's internals and depending on in what format they receive their events now that may range from simple-ish to very difficult, but if it would be possible to differentiate between pitch bends translated from note expressions and raw pitch bend messages sent as MIDI you could have the former only affect oscillator/filter pitch and not also modulation. Then only actual MIDI pitch bend messages would be used for pitch wheel modulation.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm getting jerky movements (low framerate) with some display scaling sizes using these last few builds in Reaper. Running it native, so not using Rosetta on Mac. Happens on various plugin formats (tried Clap and VST2) and using the latest Reaper but note: trying in Studio One results in smooth movements. Not sure if this is a U-he thing or a Reaper thing.

For instance, on my 2021 MBP:

1. Load up ACE - default skin - display scaling at 140% to 160% (the max size for my screen resolution)
2. Move the Glide knob

Result: jerky movement at 140%, 150%, and 160%

3. Change the display scaling to 100% to 130% and move the glide knob

Result: smooth movement.

If I repeat in Diva, it's similar. Some plugin display scalings result in crisp movement, others are jerky. Where it gets jerky may also be theme dependent. Some themes get jerky at different sizes.

For instance: ACE default skin works great at 110% as indicated above, but if I use Ploki's ACID theme, that gets jerky at 110% and is smooth at 100%.

Repeat that same test in Studio One and silky smooth movement at 140%.

EDIT: just rechecked Windows and it's ok. Just happening on my Mac.