If Mixing & Mastering are separate professions and skills, why do so many individuals offer both services?

[djingram]

Sites like Fiverr are filled with mostly people that do both.
Is this a Red Flag? Should I avoid people that offer both services?

[enroe]

Because there is already some overlap: With both - mixes and masters - it is crucial to
have a feeling for the different frequencies. This feeling can actually only develop over
years or decades through experience.

Mixing requires assessing different frequencies - concentrating on the individual
channels and their relationship to one another.

When mastering, the focus is on the stereo sum: You then concentrate on whether
the frequencies here are concerted and balanced.

[imrae]

They are not mutually exclusive skills, it is possible to be good at both. It may, however, take some compromises to set up an ideal studio for both. The very best of each will have plenty of work coming in so no need to do stuff they are less good at.

If you're not looking for a world-class engineer the jack-of-all-trades may be good enough for your purposes. I would look at their portfolio, pricing and information about the quality of their listening environment.

[lfm]

Make a mix as ready as you can
- then send this to a mastering service
- listen to what they did
- if there is not any difference try some other service.
- then try to mimic the same with the mix you sent

Then you know if you can do it too.

There is such a variety that mixing can do, completely make over arrangement and other things.
- what instruments are to be foreground is so personal
- hard for a mixing service to be you

[Synthman2000]

One reason for sure is that some are simply not good enough at either to earn a living on just one of these 2 services. It is usually absolute beginners who have their music mastered by the same person who mixed it because they know no different.

Mastering mix engineers... pfft. To sell mastering as a mix engineer says a lot about the mix engineers knowledge IMO. It says they have no clue about the importance of objectivity and lack of understanding about the compounding of errors.

I fact I would avoid the mixing stage on the basis they 'master' as well. It shows a total lack of knowledge from the outset. Maybe even desperation.

Historically these are 2 separate tasks and for very good reason. In the modern internet world everyone is a 'mastering' capable mixing engineer.

Be very cautious about mastering mix engineers.

[lfm]

Historically these are 2 separate tasks and for very good reason. In the modern internet world everyone is a 'mastering' capable mixing engineer.

Mastering process was for vinyl also adapting to what was limitations on that media, as I recall reading somewhere.

With that gone you can go full throttle with digital media and no worries where stereo field is etc. No physical stylys need to track it.

[imrae]

Mastering mix engineers... pfft. To sell mastering as a mix engineer says a lot about the mix engineers knowledge IMO. It says they have no clue about the importance of objectivity and lack of understanding about the compounding of errors.

I don't see any objectivity/compound-error problem if a mix engineer masters somebody else's mix.

I fact I would avoid the mixing stage on the basis they 'master' as well. It shows a total lack of knowledge from the outset. Maybe even desperation.

I wouldn't assume a "total lack of knowledge" from somebody who will master their own mix, just a willingness to accept money to deliver something that is not 100% ideal. Going out to another engineer costs time and money and the difference might not be worth it for a given project.

It's not as though all skilled mastering engineers deliver a uniform result of objective quality. Plenty of big budget records are overcooked because the client/label asked for it...

[Synthman2000]

I wonder just how arrogant you must be as a mix engineer, or should that read delusional ? To propose to prospective clients that they forego a critical part of their production before release, what incredibly bad advice. And to then charge for that oversight. Good luck with that.

Every mix engineer should ideally have a relationship with a mastering engineer to send the music to. And if they don't they probably never knew the value of mastering, yet another reason to avoid.

[jamcat]

Because anyone can mix and master.
But not everyone can mix or master well. And very few can do both.

Fiverr is full of the first type.

[Scotty]

I want to see the mastering engineers room. If they are in a studio with a pair of Adam A7x I’m not hiring them. They need to be able to hear things I can’t. The hardware and software tools are secondary. The space and the experience is critical.

[jamcat]

Historically these are 2 separate tasks and for very good reason. In the modern internet world everyone is a 'mastering' capable mixing engineer.

Mastering process was for vinyl also adapting to what was limitations on that media, as I recall reading somewhere.

With that gone you can go full throttle with digital media and no worries where stereo field is etc. No physical stylys need to track it.

This is correct. Mastering is all about creating MASTERS for the various distribution mediums. The EQ and dynamics of a song need to change depending on where it is on a vinyl record. The inner grooves of a record move slower than the outer grooves, because it is a shorter distance over the same duration of time. (The D=RT formula tells us that when distance decreases and time remains the same, rate decreases proportionally to distance.)

This gradual change in the rate means the resolution decreases as the needle travels inward, and this affects the EQ and the dynamic potential of the record. A mastering engineer had to account for all of that and create a master for vinyl that would remain uniform across the record. Also, bass had to be center panned and also high-passed, depending on the playing time of the record, because bass frequencies eat up a lot of vinyl real estate, and actually shorten how much music can fit on a record.

Tape required a totally different approach, because of tape hiss and dynamics/high frequency loss that occurs when magnetising oxide. The record label wanted your cassette tape to sound the same as your friend's vinly record, and that required two completely different masters, and someone who knew how to achieve that.

That's what mastering is REALLY about.

Today, you just need to worry about targeting -14 LUFS for streaming services. Since albums aren't really even a thing anymore, getting a bunch of disparate songs to sound like they belong together in the same package doesn't even matter that much anymore. Which means anyone can play with plugins and play dress up as a "mastering engineer" and pretend that they're doing something really important.

[Scotty]

There is more to it than mastering for loudness. Adding some harmonic distortion if desired, clearing up details that are inaudible on some speakers, targeting bass and midrange to bring out the mids and unifying the bottom end can be achieved through mastering. Making the centre vocals more audible and deessing the siblants if needed can be addressed at the mastering stage, Providing clients with feedback to address issues best solved in the mix is part of it. The history lesson is nice but mastering has evolved. I can do some if this in my own space but not all of it.

[jamcat]

All of the stuff you’re talking about is subjective. It’s just a matter of someone coming along and saying they can make your mix sound better than you can. Maybe it sounds better, or maybe it sounds worse. Depends on who you ask. Or maybe just maybe it really doesn’t matter at all to the end listener.

The history lesson is to explain why this antiquated practice ever existed, because without the historical context, no one really understands it, which is why we see so many arbitrary and convoluted rationales today from so-called “mastering engineers” to justify their existence.

[Synthman2000]

Plenty of satisfied clients justify my existence, personally speaking. This is why I will do my very utmost to not become involved in these posts anymore. The know it all's... know it all. Good luck to everyone else trying to decipher. You can but try lead horses to water often it is a waste of time and energy.

[Scotty]

Jamcat, have you had bad experiences with mastering engineers? I’m interested in what has informed your opinion. I’m not challenging it. I’ve had both good and neutral experiences. Have you hired mastering engineers for your own or
client’s music? You seem very dismissive of the entire field and not just the pretenders. Why?