KVR Audio

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:14 pm

Folks, I sure wish there was a vsti that did the following:

-Trigger pre-stretched loops for a given tempo and have them sync to host tempo. (Complex time/pitch shifting not neccessary, see notes below.)
-A user-configurable global quantize feature that allows the loop to start at a given interval (1-beat, 2-beat, 1-bar, 2-bar, 4-bar and so on.)

I know this sounds a lot like Ableton live, but I would be extremely happy with a plug-in that simply did the above, without having to incorporate a so-called liquid audio engine. I'd be overjoyed if I could take material that is already stretched and pitched for a given tempo.

Now I know there are many looping vsti that can essential trigger loops, but none have any sort of quantize function.

I'd like to think I'm pretty current with the technology introduced here, but is it possible that such a thing already exists?

Also, given that we are removing the time-pitch rendering issue, would it be difficult to create such a thing in synthedit?

Who else would like something like this?

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:35 pm

Nobody? I'm the only one who wants this???

johnnytluxury · Post by **johnnytluxury** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:53 am

Exit, you refer to "pre-stretched" loops... and then to stretch or compress them again to fit the tempo of the current song? Why not just start over with the original loop, then stretch and compress as needed? Unless the majority of your songs have lots of realtime tempo manipulation, I dont see making a plug expressly for that purpose plausible. And I think I understand the idea of specific quantize markers, maybe to start and stop a loop at specific timing intervals, but why not just slice the loop up, run it through Recycle, or the likes? I dunno, and please, I'm not being a smart ass, just trying to get a handle on what you would mean. Holla back at me with a lil more insight please? I love loop manipulation, so I'd like to get handle on what you mean.

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:04 pm

johnnytluxury wrote:Holla back at me with a lil more insight please? I love loop manipulation, so I'd like to get handle on what you mean.

Thanks for responding.

Let me try explaining better this time. Maybe I should have said that this is to be used in a live performance setting. It is not for sit down production type of stuff. I do live PA ala' Chemical Brothers or Richie Hawtin.

What I mean by "pre-stretched" loops (now I realize how silly that sounds) is that I will have already processed these loops in Acid, Ableton Live or Wavelab. I use these programs to time correct the loops for a specific tempo. I can now (for example) drop these into any host and set that host to the same tempo, and the loops will fit perfectly into the timeline. Instead of using something like Live or Acid to time correct the loops "on-the-fly", I simply use Live or Acid to process the loops for other hosts that don't have a "liquid audio" engine such as Live or Acid. I don't mind time correcting the loops ahead of time so that they work for only one given tempo.

For instance, I prefer the 'session' view in Ableton live vs. the timeline based arranger page. One of the things I love about Ableton Live's session view (that I want for this prospective vsti) is the Global Quantize feature. This gives the ability to trigger a given loop (or group of loops) at the NEXT beat, 4-beats, 8-beats or however long I want the pause to be before the section starts. This way I could simply hit a midi trigger key some number of beats before the next phrase should begin. This allows me to engage a new section of music several beats prior so that I can get my hands on another device like a filter or an instrument to be ready when the newly triggered section begins.

That is what I do in a live performance setting. I build up songs by triggering various sections of music and in whatever order I please so the performance is never same way twice.

As I said, I have taken the time to already correct loops for a specific tempo. There is no need for this vsti to time compress or even shift pitch. Other than the "configurable pause" before the next loop starts, I can't see how such a looping device would be so complex. But I really don't know.

There are already many looping vstis out there that can work with loops which have been prepared for a given tempo. Heck, you can even do this with a sampler. But as of yet, no VSTI (or VST) has the ability to trigger the loops with a user definable pause before the triggered loops begin.

Again,

-I don't need any time correcting features for this vsti. I'll have already prepared the loops for a specific tempo.

-The most important feature is the ability to hit a midi trigger many beats before the next section (a loop or group of loops) should start.

Hope that explains my idea better.

~Mark (aka 'Exit Zero')

deps · Post by **deps** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:25 pm

I don't know too much about this stuff, but doesn't DJ software such as NI Traktor DJ or DSS DJ do this?
I appreciate they're not vsti's but they might be worth looking at (?)

deps.

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:41 pm

Sorry, but it absolutely needs to be a VSTI. Otherwise, I'd stick to Ableton Live!

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:20 pm

Just a dumb question...
But shouldn't a "normal" synced arpeggiator plugin actually do the job with *any* available VSTi sample playback player

Because the entire thing seems to be a simple MIDI trigger thingy...

So normally you do insert an arpeggiator or step sequencer MIDI plugin with the desired pattern and let it trigger the sampled loop as you need synchronized to the tempo ...

I actually can understand, why this feature isn't to find in VSTis usually.

smart · Post by **smart** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:27 pm

Take a look at FL 5.0 when it comes out

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:06 pm

jackle&hyde wrote:Just a dumb question...
But shouldn't a "normal" synced arpeggiator plugin actually do the job with *any* available VSTi sample playback player

ARGH!

No ofense, but did you *really* read this post carefully?

Many, many, many loopers, samplers, even software samplers, and YES - arpegiators can trigger loops AT THE NEXT ***BEAT**. But, not any other interval (like 2-beats, 1-bar, 2-bars, etc, except Ableton Live) Show to me a ***VSTI*** arpegiator that has this capability and I will shut up!

So FL Studio is going to have this feature? Cool.

I'm a big fan of Energy Xt and it will have this feature eventually.

~Mark

op519 · Post by **op519** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:26 pm

Check out Basement Arts Reflex.

In trigger mode, you can do this.

i think

Exit Zero · Post by **Exit Zero** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:00 pm

op519 wrote:Check out Basement Arts Reflex.

In trigger mode, you can do this.

i think

Oh man, I wish you were right!

But I downloaded the manual for it earlier today and didn't see any facility for this. I did however email Basement Arts to confirm this. I'm not holding my breath though.

Thanks anyway.

Keep the ideas comin' folks!

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:02 pm

Exit Zero wrote:
jackle&hyde wrote:Just a dumb question...
But shouldn't a "normal" synced arpeggiator plugin actually do the job with *any* available VSTi sample playback player
ARGH!

No ofense, but did you *really* read this post carefully?

Many, many, many loopers, samplers, even software samplers, and YES - arpegiators can trigger loops AT THE NEXT ***BEAT**. But, not any other interval (like 2-beats, 1-bar, 2-bars, etc, except Ableton Live) Show to me a ***VSTI*** arpegiator that has this capability and I will shut up!

So FL Studio is going to have this feature? Cool.

I'm a big fan of Energy Xt and it will have this feature eventually.

~Mark

I *did* read it. Therefore I spoke *not only* about arpeggiators (which - right - may cause the problem you described) but also about:

STEP SEQUENCERS as VSTis or MIDI effects.
Those (in principle) actually ARE ABLE TO DO THAT.

Got it now

ps: FruityLoops, for instance, is an useful example of such a piece, but may be "total overkill" for you ...
I am prety sure, there are others too.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:06 pm

wouldn't ERA or EST be able to do that?

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:10 pm

btw: A simple trigger-able step sequencer VSTi with MIDI output also should be able to do that in connection with any sampler VSTi (dependant from the host you use).

op519 · Post by **op519** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:19 pm

Exit Zero try this in Reflex. I am doing this by memory so if it doesn't work, sorry.

In the envelope window, switch to the trigger mode.

Now in the waveform window you can drag the start point ( the individual #) and the end point (E) and it will still sync even for on the fly adjustments. If I am understanding what you are searching to do, this is it. Again, it isn't a function I use in Reflex really so I may be totally wrong.

My preferred looping vsti