Charlatan v1.4.1 - free VA synth (Win VSTi 32-/64-bit)

[Mutant]

Yes i just checked it with Voxengo SPAN and it looks like it is a pure white noise with all frequencies at about -90dB (ofc only when the filter is fully open).
Not a very big deal, because i can not think up a situation i would want both oscillators valume turned down completely.

[Ingonator]

Yes i just checked it with Voxengo SPAN and it looks like it is a pure white noise with all frequencies at about -90dB (ofc only when the filter is fully open).
Not a very big deal, because i can not think up a situation i would want both oscillators valume turned down completely.

I found this while using the Triangle wave on oscillator one and the second OSC turned off. When i turned the volume of OSC1 to 0 it was more obvious.
It would be no problem if it would only happen with the oscillators off. It starts already before the filter is fully open, maybe at 70% of the full amount.


Ingo

[K82]

just tested, 1.2.2 has that behaviour too.

[chk071]

Maybe it's a feature, the "analogness".

[Evan]

hmmm so why would you use the same synth twice in the FX chain, but with different sounds? Why not using two tracks instead then, so you could adjust the output of both completely independently?

I thought you wanted to use Charlatan in a stacked way to get a "phatter" sound. If you put 2 of them in an FX chain, and disable right on first, and left on the second, you get a pretty interesting setting to make some pretty interesting sounds.

You can do it both ways. You can get a fatter sound by stacking in a single track also.

I try to keep number of tracks low. I don't like the idea of having multiple tracks just to create a single sound. It can get messy very quickly to manage the project. I much prefer if I can do an individual sound in a single track.

[Crackbaby]

Have you checked out Mux? There you not only can stack synths easily but you can also turning on one knob turn the knob of another instance of charlatan. A little work but fully possible (I did it , i had four of them, -1 oct, +1 oct and then 2 with variable detune and pan. In the end though, i found out that one instance was enough!)

[karrikuh]

Maybe it's a feature, the "analogness".

Although you were joking, you are actually quite right: yes, there is some white noisefloor intentially added to the filter input because I felt it somehow helps to make the sound more alive or, yes, "analog". Of course it becomes obvious if oscillator signals are both off, but that's not really a useful setting, is it?

EDIT: updated new build of v1.3 (no version bump) with noise floor lowered by 6dB, was probably too excessive before...

[chk071]

Nice, hehe. Amazing level of detail which flows into the development.

[manducator]

Of course it becomes obvious if oscillator signals are both off, but that's not really a useful setting, is it?

Oops, I thought it was a usefull setting for the self oscillating filter.

[karrikuh]

Of course it becomes obvious if oscillator signals are both off, but that's not really a useful setting, is it?

Oops, I thought it was a usefull setting for the self oscillating filter.

Right, but in this case most of the noise is filter out anyway.

EDIT: updated new build of v1.3 (no version bump) with noise floor lowered by 6dB, was probably too excessive before...

[DuX]

Thank you, karrikuh, yes it was a bit excessive. For a plugin, it should be definitely under at least -100dB. Unlike many Waves plugins... and when you have like 24 of them in a project you get 40dB S/N ratio since noise accumulates on top of each other. Many of the developers who make saturation/noise plugins have figured that out. Not Waves, though.

And btw, I've got absolutely nothing against a little bit of noise, on the contrary. I think every plugin should generate a bit of noise... but at about -120dB or more. The problem with computer noise is also that it's too consistent kinda. If you're trying to emulate hardware like noise, it oscillates. It's not so consistent. The thing is that hardware noise also contains a little oscillations in phase. I think the most "accurate", if I may say so, analog noise, comes from Voxengo AnalogFlux Insert plugin. It modulates the noise and phase, both. I love the plugin. It makes sounds that I want to sound "3D" or "hardware like" sound exactly like that. It's awesome. I always liked Aleksey's stuff.

People in general tend to put too much focus on frequencies, and forget about the phase. It's part of the audio in the same way as frequencies... I mean have you ever mixed stuff and found that if you turn the phase of one sound it makes it sound rather different? In some cases it makes it sound better, in some worse. Phase response of a plugin is quite a bit more important than people would like to admit. Hardware is not excluded from that, too.

For an example, you only need to put a phaser plugin on Charlatan. However, the phase changes I'm talking about are much more subtle, but they exist in all hardware, and that's what hardware "freaks" perceive as sound being more "3D".

[Crackbaby]

... you seriously have no idea what you're talking about

[DuX]

Referring to me? Have you ever tried Voxengo's "Insert"? Try it and then comment. Or maybe you're referring to my comments about noise? What is it *you* are talking about?

When you comment, it is advisable to be kinda more elaborate, you know?

Not just "you suck, haha, your brain is my footstool" How old are you? [that was rhetorical q, you can be 50 and still "weird" ...]

[Crackbaby]

I apologize, i was rude.

Regarding elaboration.. i've read it through what you wrote several times now, just as i did last night, and i have no idea where to start.

I assume this is the voxengo plugin?

The Insert VST plugin is our attempt to create a simple processor which could be inserted on any track to make it sound less digitally-focused and thus make it sound warmer. Beside the severe phase smearing this plug-in introduces it also allows you to apply modulation noise of selectable strength. This processor while sounding subtle at the first glance can do miracles at taming overly sharp transients.

"Phase smearing".. What the hell is that? Im sure it makes things sound better (i like voxengo's stuff) but this description is so very vague. What is "modulation noise"? Is it noise as a consequence of modulation or is it modulated noise as you wrote?

Modulating phase would be a latency introducing pitch vibrato. It would probably make things sound more "analog" as in unstable. But with the latency..? Maybe it's worth it at a mixing stage.

Noise that oscillates.. What do you mean? You say it's not so consistent but if it oscillates it would mean it's less random and ... noise that oscillates?! What is that

By "turning the phase", do you mean inserting a small delay? That can indeed change the sound of the overall mix as you get phase cancellation (or remove it).
Comparing this to a phaser is a long stretch though.

I reacted the way i did because you wrote with a certain amount of confidence. And for the "common" man, truth is only an argument. Most people don't questionize everything they read. Thus i think it's the duty of those who know better to jump in and say stop. Now, i know i did it in a rude way and i should have written an explanation like i did here. It was pretty late though and i was just about to sleep. My judgment slipped and im sorry for that.

I will naturally have to download the demo of this plugin. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, i had not heard of it before.

[AZZZ]

New GUI is nice
And I made new soundset for Charlatan.


Download from my website
http://bji.yukihotaru.com/charlatan.html

Download from KVR
http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=dl&id=1798