KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:01 pm

Non-linear circuit equations -> unpredictable.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:03 pm

Destitute wrote:3 pages until the Hans Zimmer name-drop.

Not bad!

Indeed. I do owe him a lot though. Not denying that.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:07 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Non-linear circuit equations -> unpredictable.

That's actually true. Things would be a piece of cake otherwise

helium · Post by **helium** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Urs wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Non-linear circuit equations -> unpredictable.
That's actually true. Things would be a piece of cake otherwise

It's predictable. The output only depends on the input and the filter's state. So on a theoretical computer with enough memory you could simply look up the result. But we will never have that amount of memory. So in reality you have to use the fixed point approximation you currently use.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:52 pm

helium wrote:
Urs wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Non-linear circuit equations -> unpredictable.
That's actually true. Things would be a piece of cake otherwise
It's predictable. The output only depends on the input and the filter's state. So on a theoretical computer with enough memory you could simply look up the result. But we will never have that amount of memory. So in reality you have to use the fixed point approximation you currently use.

That's also true, yes. That table would have to be quite multidimensional because you don't only need the state variables but also the coefficients as indices. A simple State Variable or Sallen-Key might be doable with enough RAM, but forget about ladder/cascade structures

There are other methods that may converge faster, but these need more brain power (on dev side) and prior calculation, and they might not be as exact as the numerical one.

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:01 pm

As always I'm a bit surprised by all the hype.
Sure, DIVA is great and again it brings something new to the table. But isn't it the same every half year?

New VSTi comes out.
People freak out about it, because NOW .. FINALLY .. analog sound has been nailed.
Half year later: "It's great, but it still misses >bla<, which analog Synth X/Y has. But this NEW synth now .. coming ut next month .. really does it .. can't wait to have it!"

And then, one of the most "analog sounding" VSTi is still the old Korg Polysix plugin.

Just saying.

(Oh .. and I myself are guilty of it too.
I change my mind about how close VSTi are to real analog ones every few weeks.
Btw. DIVA is a kickass synth for synthetic drums!)

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:10 pm

Polybius wrote:
I'll take your glitches and drop outs, and raise them with a detune!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo

Bestest answer to an analog vs. Diva thread. Evvarr.

dsynth27 · Post by **dsynth27** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:11 pm

Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.

Real analog still outpaces it by far....but for an easy portable setup softsynths are great.

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:15 pm

dsynth27 wrote:Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.
Real analog still outpaces it by far....but for a easy portable setup softsynths are great.

Hm, nothing wrong with that. But Ingo said he has to wait 15 minutes until his SlimPhatty stays in tune. Or did I misunderstand that?

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:17 pm

Nokenoku wrote:As always I'm a bit surprised by all the hype.
Sure, DIVA is great and again it brings something new to the table. But isn't it the same every half year?

New VSTi comes out.
People freak out about it, because NOW .. FINALLY .. analog sound has been nailed.
Half year later: "It's great, but it still misses >bla<, which analog Synth X/Y has. But this NEW synth now .. coming ut next month .. really does it .. can't wait to have it!"

That's why I'm asking for real comparisons. Maybe somebody with the hardware goodies is interested in doing some audios. For ABX consumption.

dsynth27 · Post by **dsynth27** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:20 pm

chacka wrote:
dsynth27 wrote:Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.
Real analog still outpaces it by far....but for a easy portable setup softsynths are great.
Hm, nothing wrong with that. But Ingo said he has to wait 15 minutes until his SlimPhatty stays in tune. Or did I misunderstand that?

No, I think you misunderstand me. By wait I mean time for software update to fix any bugs a new OS can often bring. I have to tune my viola before a concert also and while not 15 min real instruments need to be tuned. A consequence of existence in the real world

My point is about objective sound quality. Again, Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.

Aroused by JarJar · Post by **Aroused by JarJar** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:34 pm

dsynth27 wrote:
chacka wrote:
dsynth27 wrote:Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.
Real analog still outpaces it by far....but for a easy portable setup softsynths are great.
Hm, nothing wrong with that. But Ingo said he has to wait 15 minutes until his SlimPhatty stays in tune. Or did I misunderstand that?
No, I think you misunderstand me. By wait I mean time for software update to fix any bugs a new OS can often bring. I have to tune my viola before a concert also and while not 15 min real instruments need to be tuned. A consequence of existence in the real world

My point is about objective sound quality. Again, Diva sounds outstanding but will take my Slim Phatty and Mopho - plus they will always work with any future OS without wait or hassle.

So let's hear some examples. Dry or minimal delay/miniverb, for comparison with auditioning the DIVA demo.

dsynth27 · Post by **dsynth27** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:41 pm

They won't come from me sorry...I have no time. You have to purchase yourself but maybe someone here will be able to do so. There are already soooooooo many examples on the net. Try Gearslutz if there are no comparisons here.

Anyway like I said Diva sounds terrific (and I think I have well trained ears) but Slim Phatty and Mopho are superior if wanting authentic analog sounds. You cannot as of yet do better than the real thing but can utilize the advantages software brings in price, and portability. In the studio, at least for me it is hardware all the way.

goldenanalog · Post by **goldenanalog** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:34 pm

To the OP:

It's a table-top question unless you're getting ready to invest in Synth equipment or software. As a Hammond organ player from years back, it comes down to what I'm willing to put up with. 100's of pounds of breakable/back-breaking equipment, or a keyboard now controller/software. Hammond organ emulations are now so close, that unless I was involved in a music venue that REQUIRED the read deal, NO WAY. I look at the analog/digital arguments the same way: as I said in my review of Synthix: both DIVA and Synthix nail it, at least until you 'push the ends-at the boundaries of your model (whatever model you use) is where the real deal separates from the emulation. But: look at Madrona Labs' Aalto for a Synth that can do effective analog sounding 'bird calls' and things like that-it's an analog model that starts to cover the 'everything else' side of modeling modular synthesis.

dsynth27 · Post by **dsynth27** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:43 pm

goldenanalog wrote:To the OP:

It's a table-top question unless you're getting ready to invest in Synth equipment or software. As a Hammond organ player from years back, it comes down to what I'm willing to put up with. 100's of pounds of breakable/back-breaking equipment, or a keyboard now controller/software. Hammond organ emulations are now so close, that unless I was involved in a music venue that REQUIRED the read deal, NO WAY. I look at the analog/digital arguments the same way: as I said in my review of Synthix: both DIVA and Synthix nail it, at least until you 'push the ends-at the boundaries of your model (whatever model you use) is where the real deal separates from the emulation. But: look at Madrona Labs' Aalto for a Synth that can do effective analog sounding 'bird calls' and things like that-it's an analog model that starts to cover the 'everything else' side of modeling modular synthesis.

+1 well said...it is not that software sounds incapable. It really comes down to preference and the situation that you will be using the gear. The bottom line is great music can be made with either....I guess my snobish ears hears the difference between real analog gear vs software and when producing it bothers me a bit. Otherwise I am happy playing/jamming using software. However, with heavy gear like organs software definitely wins! Synths like Mopho/SlimPhatty are portable so the difference is what sounds best to your ear and is more fun to play with. As a violist I like gear I can touch and sounds "real"

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Diva Vs. Real Analog