KVR Audio

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:22 am

kelvyn wrote:Does Predator have the same architecture as Albino 3 and is it able to load A3 presets? If not I don't understand the tone of Rob Papens reply... I'm a bit confused by the situation as Albino 3 has both LinPlug and Rob Papens name on it and would assume that both companies would be trying to find a positive solution to the situation.

If it's backwards compatible it would need to share the same code as Albino. And if Rob isnt receiving proceeds from the sale he is providing his code/work for free.

I completely understand his position.

Arcvidean · Post by **Arcvidean** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:39 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
kelvyn wrote:Does Predator have the same architecture as Albino 3 and is it able to load A3 presets? If not I don't understand the tone of Rob Papens reply... I'm a bit confused by the situation as Albino 3 has both LinPlug and Rob Papens name on it and would assume that both companies would be trying to find a positive solution to the situation.
If it's backwards compatible it would need to share the same code as Albino. And if Rob isnt receiving proceeds from the sale he is providing his code/work for free.

I completely understand his position.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought the code was by Linplug and the presets by Rob Papen.However the copyright was held by both

Arcvidean.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:43 am

Arcvidean wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:
kelvyn wrote:Does Predator have the same architecture as Albino 3 and is it able to load A3 presets? If not I don't understand the tone of Rob Papens reply... I'm a bit confused by the situation as Albino 3 has both LinPlug and Rob Papens name on it and would assume that both companies would be trying to find a positive solution to the situation.
If it's backwards compatible it would need to share the same code as Albino. And if Rob isnt receiving proceeds from the sale he is providing his code/work for free.

I completely understand his position.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought the code was by Linplug and the presets by Rob Papen.However the copyright was held by both

Arcvidean.

Oh I thought differently. Could well be wrong though.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:46 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:If it's backwards compatible it would need to share the same code as Albino.

Incorrect.

And if Rob isnt receiving proceeds from the sale he is providing his code/work for free.

Proceeds of what sale?

Rob presumably gets 'proceeds of sale' from Albino yes? If 'Albino Replacement X' doesnt include his presets, but can load them, then anyone who has their own copies to load into the replacement already paid for them.

I dont believe Rob contributed code; hes not a programmer AFAIK. But if he did, reimplementing it without using his code at all is entirely possible.

If the end-user license for that the presets which come with Albino3 doesn't preclude them being used in something other than Albino3, then I reckon an end user who has legally licensed them is actually legally entitled to load them into anything they can.

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:47 am

whyterabbyt wrote:Rob presumably gets 'proceeds of sale' from Albino yes? If 'Albino Replacement X' doesnt include his presets, but can load them, then anyone who has their own copies to load into the replacement already paid for them.

Exceptionally well put.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:53 am

whyterabbyt wrote:I dont believe Rob contributed code; hes not a programmer AFAIK. But if he did, reimplementing it without using his code at all is entirely possible.

I'm referring to the code. Couldnt care less about the presets. Yes they are owned and are free to be used in any system allows them.

I'm not sure how much, if any, code he provided (I think I was mistaken here)but he did provide the concept and architecture. Building another synth off the back of this seems a bit er, unethical really. This applies even if it is done using different code.

I feel like this is that old Bitwig/Live chestnut again.

Arcvidean · Post by **Arcvidean** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:02 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:I dont believe Rob contributed code; hes not a programmer AFAIK. But if he did, reimplementing it without using his code at all is entirely possible.
I'm referring to the code. Couldnt care less about the presets. Yes they are owned and are free to be used in any system allows them.

I'm not sure how much, if any, code he provided (I think I was mistaken here)but he did provide the concept and architecture. Building another synth off the back of this seems a bit er, unethical really. This applies even if it is done using different code.

I feel like this is that old Bitwig/Live chestnut again.

I thought the concept/Architecture came from the Access Virus originally.

Arcvidean.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:03 am

Arcvidean wrote:I thought the concept/Architecture came from the Access Virus originally.

Yes I see where you're going with this

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:04 am

Bob Moog should be pissed!

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:15 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:'m referring to the code. Couldnt care less about the presets. Yes they are owned and are free to be used in any system allows them.

My misunderstanding then.

I'm not sure how much, if any, code he provided (I think I was mistaken here)but he did provide the concept and architecture.

Not completely; Albino v1 was (AFAIR) built on the basis of an existing Linplug product called DeltaIII. Originally the architectural changes were fairly minimal, if I remember rightly - the two specific filters Rob wanted.

Building another synth off the back of this seems a bit er, unethical really. This applies even if it is done using different code.

Its kind of chicken and egg in many ways, but at the end of the day I think ye olde "gentleman's agreement" notion might be best to prevent either/both parties looking bad to at least some people. I dont agree with it being 'unethical' as such, for various reasons, but it definitely has 'potential for treading on toes' which would be better avoided if there's a way to do so, IMO.

kelvyn · Post by **kelvyn** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 am

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:21 am

whyterabbyt wrote:Its kind of chicken and egg in many ways, but at the end of the day I think ye olde "gentleman's agreement" notion might be best to prevent either/both parties looking bad to at least some people. I dont agree with it being 'unethical' as such, for various reasons, but it definitely has 'potential for treading on toes' which would be better avoided if there's a way to do so, IMO.

Yep, definitely agree with you here. Well put

Rob Papen · Post by **Rob Papen** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 am

kelvyn wrote:Does Predator have the same architecture as Albino 3 and is it able to load A3 presets? If not I don't understand the tone of Rob Papens reply... I'm a bit confused by the situation as Albino 3 has both LinPlug and Rob Papens name on it and would assume that both companies would be trying to find a positive solution to the situation.

Hi Kelvyn,

Predator is for sure different in sound. Albino is more mellow and Predator has more bite and punch in the sound.

Architect is different for sure as well.
Both have two filters, but setup is very different.

But both are for many user 'goo to' synths, while making music.

Rob

simonden · Post by **simonden** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 am

whyterabbyt wrote:Its kind of chicken and egg in many ways, but at the end of the day I think ye olde "gentleman's agreement" notion might be best to prevent either/both parties looking bad to at least some people. I dont agree with it being 'unethical' as such, for various reasons, but it definitely has 'potential for treading on toes' which would be better avoided if there's a way to do so, IMO.

Agreed - I was very dissapointed with the quote from Rob which shows tha there is some bad feeling between RP and Linplug. This should be kept at company level without involving the users. If a new piece of software can import files, it can import them, doesn't matter who writes the code as long as the dev can freely write new code that can import the files.

There are some other issues here such as:

1) Will you still be able to download the latest version from the RP user area?
2) Will you still be able to transfer licences that are registered with RP?
3) Can you register Albino with Linplug site instead of RP site (if already registered with RP site)?

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 am

whyterabbyt wrote:but at the end of the day I think ye olde "gentleman's agreement" notion might be best to prevent either/both parties looking bad to at least some people.

This is what I mean when I was talking about: goodwill. How damaging would it be for Rob to let Albino live on? Instead the first thing he does is come shouting about he won't allow any other product read his presets.

I don't know how DiscoDSP gets away with the fact that Discovery can read Nord Lead presets. I really cannot see how this can be bad for anyone. If Peter wants to Albino live on in one form or another - good!

/C

The end of Albino