Good envelopes

[stonestreet]

Curves - preferably done by (self) modulating the envelopes so that the rate of change can be controlled by the user.

Peace,
Andy.

^^^This is what I experiment with.

At first it confused me on the Mopho having a delay section before the ADSR (i.e. DADSR.) Me of little imagination thought "Why would you not want the sound to start straight away when you hit a key?" One day when I was messing around I stacked the 3 envelopes together and sort of got a clap sound by varying the delay between them.

No doubt there are more reasons....It's at places like this where this info becomes available.

Have fun.

[Lotuzia]

Still wondering about keytracking envelope times - only some rolands and some yamahas seem to do it (albeit a bit different to each). Anybody used something like this before?

Those S are just levels, so it's much like a Reaktor ADBDSR (from the Classic Modular macros, B -breakpoint - also being a level value.)

Mostly I think that keytracking was used on attack time, though theoretically with something like Reaktor you could keytrack each envelope value. I could see some uses for that.

I want a GOOD old-school analog legato.

The release time also : Very usefull to emulate keys behaviour, where low register notes have a longest release than hi register ones.

On the FM8 you can control the global speed of the envelopes.

On the Korg Mono-Poly you can modulate EV segments, its also true in Alchemy, as well as in Oxium or the Synthix, with the keytracking ( Velocity works very well as a modulator also )


As for Old school legato, well maybe you should try one of the 6 Play mono modes of Oxium for example

[Ichad.c]

The release time also : Very usefull to emulate keys behaviour, where low register notes have a longest release than hi register ones.

Good point - probably one of the reasons that the feature is available on certain synths.

[Music Engineer]

Still wondering about keytracking envelope times - only some rolands and some yamahas seem to do it (albeit a bit different to each). Anybody used something like this before?

i included this feature for the time-scale of the envelope as a whole in straightliner. i'm considering to add it also per-segment at some point.

edit: although i don't know which particular roland and yamaha units you refer to, i guess, i do not qualify for "before"

[ENV1]

Still wondering about keytracking envelope times - only some rolands and some yamahas seem to do it (albeit a bit different to each). Anybody used something like this before?

KORGs M1 supports it. And its a very good implementation too, since you can not only select positive or negative time-polarity, (which controls whether lower notes will be shorter or higher notes will be shorter), you can do so for each envelope stage of each VDF/VDA individually, plus you can specify a center-key to distribute the whole thing across the preferred range of keys.


The WAVESTATION supports it too, but the implementation is way more primitive. (Pos or Neg polarity only, no individual stage options, no center-key option.)

[bmanic]

Still wondering about keytracking envelope times - only some rolands and some yamahas seem to do it (albeit a bit different to each). Anybody used something like this before?

I modulate many envelopes within Camel Audio Alchemy using key tracking. It's extremely useful and important. Different attack, decay and release times depending on note position.

Cheers!
bManic

[realmarco]

i like Absynth's envelopes you can even have them "click" no hardware analogue synth could have faster envelopes

This is not true though. If you carefully listen and start to actually measure the "click", for instance using an oscilloscope for the analogue signal, you'll quickly notice that there is way more to a simple click than meets the eye.

Fast in theory (amount of samples in a digital output) versus how fast it sounds to our ear/brain, are two different things. I know, it's hard to believe but that's how it is. Shape is everything.

For instance, in a digital system, the actual sample positions in a 8 sample (0.2ms basically at 44.1kHz) mini-click will decide very much how the sound actually sounds when it is filtered at the DA converter of your sound card. In fact, especially on these "clicks" the very type of your DA converter will change the perceived sound of the click.

I've done a lot of tests with this during various product developments and sound bank creation.

There's no such thing as a "simple click". Even an extremely short sound can have a lot of different flavors. People who are into any type of glitch music will know this very well.

Cheers!
bManic

it does, try it yourself instantiate an envelope for the amp of a oscillator, then click and drag the "a" of the envelope towards the upper left and you will hear a click

[himalaya]

At first it confused me on the Mopho having a delay section before the ADSR (i.e. DADSR.) Me of little imagination thought "Why would you not want the sound to start straight away when you hit a key?" One day when I was messing around I stacked the 3 envelopes together and sort of got a clap sound by varying the delay between them.

No doubt there are more reasons....It's at places like this where this info becomes available.

Have fun.

Another use for delayed envelopes is when creating multiple string plucks. Delaying one pluck by a few milliseconds will create a richer sound, which for ethnic type hybrid string sounds is very nice indeed. Try the (free) Krakli RMXL synth to experiment with such sounds (PC only). Here:
http://www.krakli.com/krakli-free-synths/

[realmarco]

http://www.krakli.com/krakli-free-synths/

Mac AU versions please...or is it S-E ?

[himalaya]

It's SynthEdit.

[stonestreet]

At first it confused me on the Mopho having a delay section before the ADSR (i.e. DADSR.) Me of little imagination thought "Why would you not want the sound to start straight away when you hit a key?" One day when I was messing around I stacked the 3 envelopes together and sort of got a clap sound by varying the delay between them.

No doubt there are more reasons....It's at places like this where this info becomes available.

Have fun.

Another use for delayed envelopes is when creating multiple string plucks. Delaying one pluck by a few milliseconds will create a richer sound, which for ethnic type hybrid string sounds is very nice indeed. Try the (free) Krakli RMXL synth to experiment with such sounds (PC only). Here:
http://www.krakli.com/krakli-free-synths/

Thanks himalaya. Will have a look and play.

[himalaya]

A good sample based instrument is also suitable for this. Here I'm using Halion Sonic (which is just fabulous) for a hybrid string sound with one string delayed slightly:

Dual Nylon Pluck

[realmarco]

It's SynthEdit.

dang

[pdxindy]

Still wondering about keytracking envelope times - only some rolands and some yamahas seem to do it (albeit a bit different to each). Anybody used something like this before?

I modulate many envelopes within Camel Audio Alchemy using key tracking. It's extremely useful and important. Different attack, decay and release times depending on note position.

Cheers!
bManic

I also use keytracking on just the attack or the decay or release of an envelop (in Zebra)... as well as some random variability on release time. I value such control over envelopes!

[bmanic]

i like Absynth's envelopes you can even have them "click" no hardware analogue synth could have faster envelopes

This is not true though. If you carefully listen and start to actually measure the "click", for instance using an oscilloscope for the analogue signal, you'll quickly notice that there is way more to a simple click than meets the eye.

Fast in theory (amount of samples in a digital output) versus how fast it sounds to our ear/brain, are two different things. I know, it's hard to believe but that's how it is. Shape is everything.

For instance, in a digital system, the actual sample positions in a 8 sample (0.2ms basically at 44.1kHz) mini-click will decide very much how the sound actually sounds when it is filtered at the DA converter of your sound card. In fact, especially on these "clicks" the very type of your DA converter will change the perceived sound of the click.

I've done a lot of tests with this during various product developments and sound bank creation.

There's no such thing as a "simple click". Even an extremely short sound can have a lot of different flavors. People who are into any type of glitch music will know this very well.

Cheers!
bManic

it does, try it yourself instantiate an envelope for the amp of a oscillator, then click and drag the "a" of the envelope towards the upper left and you will hear a click

You kind of missed my point. I don't doubt that Absynth can do a "click", most synths can do that. My point was that a simple "click" can be equally fast in the analogue domain, even faster, and it has all to do with the actual shape of the impulse and how the Digital to Analogue converter treats it.

So simply saying "omg! this synth envelope is soooo fast! it can go all the way down to a "click!" doesn't really mean anything" unless you are way more specific. What kind of click? A light one? One with some bottom end to it? A "smooth" one (more like a zap!) or a chunky one (more like a "tock!"). There are so many details to the initial onset of a transient and incredibly small differences in sample position of whatever makes up the click can translate to something completely different once it's in the analogue domain (after DA conversion).

Cheers!
bManic