KVR Audio

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:41 pm

rv0 wrote:
cytospur wrote:Apart from the lack of a tap mode, the TT303 sequencer works exactly the same way. It sounds like tap mode will probably come later in a firmware update.
We'll see when that happens
I have a slight feeling the new firmware is vapourware

As I see, you have to press "write" after each note, this is not same as 303.
Could be wrong there, but I've seen it written by multiple people on the forums.

I would be quite amazed that track mode works the same, though I don't expect people to report that as most people dont know/use track mode.

You are correct about having to hit write after each note, but that is a very minor point given that you have to do that when inputting slides and accents etc on the real thing.

There is a track write mode if that is what you mean.

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:41 pm

DuX wrote:That sucks, having to press "write" after each note. No, genuine TB works differently. All you have to do is enter the "write mode", and exit the write mode when you're finished.

Sarcasm, right?

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:51 pm

it's not minor
it makes a huge difference when you program (or deal with) long notes
you also don't press "NEXT" after writing each note

the TB-303 can "write" notes (which overwrites the old ones) or "view/edit" the existing ones (when holding NEXT)

so writing new notes is very fast, it automatically advances
not every pattern uses accent/slide, in which case you can write the notes in one go (given that you can hold Down/Up before writing the note value)

just check my silly vb303 tutorial video, and the pattern i program there
it's a 4-bar long pattern (64 steps) and if you ignore that i messed up time mode 3 times and skip directly to tap-write mode - you can see how easy it was to program such a pattern
i'm sure it'll be a nightmare to program this on the TT if you have to press NEXT on each step

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:42 pm

antto wrote:...just check my silly vb303 tutorial video, and the pattern i program there it's a 4-bar long pattern (64 steps) and if you ignore that i messed up time mode 3 times and skip directly to tap-write mode - you can see how easy it was to program such a pattern.....

Sorry, but you're saying that it's easy, but you messed up three times and skipped to another method, even though you wrote the engine.

Don't get me wrong, you've made a great clone here, but I don't think it's good form to go around knocking other clones, especially when you haven't even tried them.

At least I can say that I've tried your sequencer and the TT303 and I have no problem with how either of them work. The key thing is to get the final sequence input correctly. The means to that end is inconsequential AFAIAC. Note that the xoxbox method is even more different from the TB303.

rv0 · Post by **rv0** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:57 pm

cytospur wrote:
antto wrote:...just check my silly vb303 tutorial video, and the pattern i program there it's a 4-bar long pattern (64 steps) and if you ignore that i messed up time mode 3 times and skip directly to tap-write mode - you can see how easy it was to program such a pattern.....

Sorry, but you're saying that it's easy, but you messed up three times and skipped to another method, even though you wrote the engine.

we were talking about Pitch Mode
he said he messed up Time Mode 3 times.

cytospur wrote: Don't get me wrong, you've made a great clone here, but I don't think it's good form to go around knocking other clones, especially when you haven't even tried them.

At least I can say that I've tried your sequencer and the TT303 and I have no problem with how either of them work. The key thing is to get the final sequence input correctly. The means to that end is inconsequential AFAIAC. Note that the xoxbox method is even more different from the TB303.

yeah, the x0xb0x thing is indeed different in stock firmware. Antto knows that as he's making his own firmware for it

I wouldn't say hes knocking on other clones. The differences shouldnt be ignored. Ok if it doesnt bother you, but it would sure drive me nuts having to press twice as much buttons..

And as for track mode.. I know it has track mode.. But I doubt it works the same (Too lazy to read the manual and find out for now..) . You may call that cynicism if you like, and I wish I could get my hands on one soon to try it myself.

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon May 13, 2013 7:19 pm

I'm fully aware of what annto is up to. I've been following his venom beta thread for long enough

I've used track mode on the TT303 and checked out a YT vid to see how it's done on the TB. At first glance it appears that they are the same.

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon May 13, 2013 7:23 pm

I don't get the issue with having to press next after each note is input (edit: in the TT303) It feels rather intuitive to me, especially if you want to add on embellishments for certain notes. It's akin to typing in a comma in a sentence.

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon May 13, 2013 7:46 pm

i messed up time mode 3 times there because i did not have this pattern "written" anywhere (neither on paper, nor on screen) and i was standing pretty sideways (uncomfortable) because the camera tripod was right in the center of the desk
but that's not important, the important thing is to notice that i programmed such a long pattern (in pitch mode) so easy and then i used tap-write mode for the time information (since i failed to program it out of my mind into time mode)

the pattern was 28 notes which fit into 4 bars (64 steps)
i pressed 28 buttons to write the notes

if i was gonna program this on the x0xb0x (with stock firmware or sokkos) there are a few issues:
1) would have to do it individually with 4 sepparate patterns
2) there are no "ties" so i'd have to program the same notes and "connect" them with slides
3) would have to press like 64 buttons to write the notes, and press NEXT 64 times, and don't forget the slides
as you can see, some things are difficult on some sequencers, while other things are easier
now, on the TT-303, i'm not sure if they got the gate/tie/rest behaviour right, but in the best case scenario you'll have to press those 28 buttons to write the notes, and 28 times NEXT

so maybe it's a small detail, but has a huge impact on the workflow and what type of patterns you end up "composing" usually

you could say that on the x0xb0x sequencer you tend to write patterns with many different notes
while on the TB-303 sequencer you can easily write pattern with longer notes
also, changing those long notes afterwards (editing their attributes) is also very easy and doesn't "chop" the long notes into smaller ones
quite the opposite, identical slid notes tend to become "ties" .. in other words, the TB-303 sequencer forces notes to become extended, whenever possible

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon May 13, 2013 7:54 pm

If anyone's interested, three vaguely famous 303 patterns for the VB303.

Anyone got any more?

marvotron · Post by **marvotron** » Mon May 13, 2013 11:46 pm

I got one for K Alexi : Vertigo

http://relivethefuture.com/music/K_Alexi-Vertigo.nsp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fZaT1-PVg

Halma · Post by **Halma** » Tue May 14, 2013 11:55 am

marvotron wrote:I got one for K Alexi : Vertigo

...

Holy s**t! One of my personal "Holy Grails" from Detroit. Damn this record is so f***ing great & I bought numerous copies over the last 20 years. Played "My Medusa" every night in our club in the early 90s. One of the most underrated artists of all time in EDM. Thx for that.

Just curious but do you have any Armando patterns?

Cheers,
Sebastian

marvotron · Post by **marvotron** » Tue May 14, 2013 12:20 pm

No, I don't have anything else, just made that one yesterday as I feel exactly the same way about that record

Halma · Post by **Halma** » Fri May 17, 2013 10:41 am

Boy, what an awesome and funny device. Hadn't got the chance to put my hands on a real one but I and a friend of mine messed around with the RB-338 15 years ago on his MAC. I remember that the RB-338 was not very intuitive either but hell lot of fun.

Anyway, the Venom is utterly bad-ass. It took me some time and concentration but finally I got most of it and it's pretty simple and fast to program once you get it. I think I will need some more time to internalize the exact keys and their functions (the upper half) but again, it's pretty well layout.

Kudos.

Soundwise it's really good. I am messing around the whole morning and recently discovered that I can "flip" the device (yeah I know, RTFM - but after reading it for 2 hours to understand the sequencer I was tired to read further

) and look what we have here: a distortion unit.

Awesome synth. Awesome manual.

Cheers,
Sebastian

antto · Post by **antto** » Fri May 17, 2013 3:57 pm

thanks for the kind words ;]

yeah, this thing requires some amount of learning
specifically the button mapping is something that gets in the way, but i tried my best to come up with a logical layout, so most buttons directly map to the keyboard, and you are only left with 5 or 6 of them which have to be learned

davidka · Post by **davidka** » Fri May 17, 2013 4:37 pm

antto wrote:thanks for the kind words ;]

yeah, this thing requires some amount of learning
specifically the button mapping is something that gets in the way, but i tried my best to come up with a logical layout, so most buttons directly map to the keyboard, and you are only left with 5 or 6 of them which have to be learned

Antto, as of this day, are there any bugs left to solve or any planned things to come?

If it is finalized, then I can print out some manuals and start immersing myself into it. I really dig the sound, but I was waiting to see if anything's going to change.

Finally: Venom VB-303 v1.00