Tone2 Nemesis is released!

[pdxindy]

The main difference of Nemsis (like already explained) to other FM synths is that it uses "real" FM which is not limited to certain waveforms but works with all kinds of waveforms for the carriers and modulators.
The additive style waveform editor was an idea i had in a discussion with Markus and Bastiaan, long before the Betatest started.

Ingo

Various other FM synths can use different waveforms, and not just sines... Octopus, Sytrus etc... and both of those also have additive style waveform editors (including phase per partial).

[Sendy]

Lots of synths use real frequency modulation. Nothing new there. The new thing here seems to be that you can use bright waveforms, without the usual heavy aliasing you'd get on most synths - though as has been touched upon numberous times, that (FM with bright waves) can be problematic in it's-self. Funnily it was mostly the other modes in Nemesis that attracted me to it, though the Neo FM thing has potential, too.

[Nightpolymath]

The main difference of Nemsis (like already explained) to other FM synths is that it uses "real" FM which is not limited to certain waveforms but works with all kinds of waveforms for the carriers and modulators.
The additive style waveform editor was an idea i had in a discussion with Markus and Bastiaan, long before the Betatest started.

Ingo

Various other FM synths can use different waveforms, and not just sines... Octopus, Sytrus etc... and both of those also have additive style waveform editors (including phase per partial).

You're absolutely spot on. That was as far back as 2005. Maxx Claster took some of the Octopus features (the mod matrix) which subsequently made it to Sytrus. At least that is how I remember it. Octopus can edit up to 32 partials, which I thought was more than enough. It imports wave forms as well.

[pdxindy]

Played briefly with Nemesis last night. I can see the power, but am not totally convinced that "real" FM using arbitrary waveforms is something I will have much use for, versus manipulation of operators solely based on sinusoids and envelopes. One spends too much time struggling with inharmonics. I have a tough time picturing modulated sinusoids to begin with, based on the simplest FM circuits.

Nemesis is supposed to be easier, but I am finding regular FM matrix synths with individual envelopes faster and easier to get results I like.

I downloaded Octopus to compare since it is also new to me, and so far I find it much easier, more fun and better sounding. It also has 2 modulatable filters and lots of multi-segment envelopes. I immediately get the nice crisp FM type timbres I expect.

Even after about 6 hours of experimenting with Nemesis, and though I understand the general concept of how the various functions work, I find it hit or miss to get something I like. Sometimes trying it, I get a tone I like, but then if I want to adjust it some way, it is too easy to lose the quality I like while editing it for other qualities.

I think the idea is that it is easier because you only have 1 carrier and 1 modulator (plus a second unrelated pair). You use a more complex waveform and modulate its complexity to simulate the result you would get with more osc's in a matrix. Seems to me you end up with a lot less flexibility and then to make up for that there is a long list of waveforms to hunt through, and then the various synth modes/structures to go through also. At least so far, the result is more hunting and less direct crafting. Kind of like using samples instead of synthesis.

I would say classic FM synthesis with multiple osc's, multi-segment envelopes and a FM matrix is more 'real' FM, than the real FM in Nemesis.

Also, it seems crippling to me to only have 2 basic adsr envelopes. Octopus has 32 multi-segment envelopes where you can precisely control the shape of each segment.

Anyway, I have enjoyed playing around with Nemesis and I like some things about it, but in the name of being easier, it takes control away from the user and imo, ends up harder to use because of it.

[MaxSynths]

+1 hour long preset showcase by Zozilla:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypf1I7w ... e=youtu.be

[Sendy]

This is the first synth since ACE where I'm actually really looking forwards to seeing what other people are doing with it in tutorials and showcase clips.

[GeorgeZ]

You're absolutely spot on. That was as far back as 2005. Maxx Claster took some of the Octopus features (the mod matrix) which subsequently made it to Sytrus. At least that is how I remember it. Octopus can edit up to 32 partials, which I thought was more than enough. It imports wave forms as well.

Errr, Sytrus was developed by gol...

[fmr]

You're absolutely spot on. That was as far back as 2005. Maxx Claster took some of the Octopus features (the mod matrix) which subsequently made it to Sytrus. At least that is how I remember it. Octopus can edit up to 32 partials, which I thought was more than enough. It imports wave forms as well.

Errr, Sytrus was developed by gol...

Perhaps he meant Toxic, which later became Biohazard (and is also being published by Image Line). That is from Maxx Claster and a great FM synth. As is Rhino, by Big Tick.

[spirit]

Sure are some excellent sounds here and tweaking the sounds is fun, but at A$240 I feel it is severely overpriced. I agree with an earlier post which put it in the $99 to $129 range.

[zvenx]

Its $199, how did you get it at $240?
Only Tone2 can decide what their RD and time is worth etc...... but like others if it was in the $99-$129 range I would have bought it.....For its current price I wasn't even tempted after playing with the demo for awhile. But then again I have never been a fan of FM, real FM or PD FM. Although I do make use of some stuff in FM8 occasionally.

rsp

[RockIngenieur]

Its $199, how did you get it at $240?
Only Tone2 can decide what their RD and time is worth etc...... but like others if it was in the $99-$129 range I would have bought it.....For its current price I wasn't even tempted after playing with the demo for awhile. But then again I have never been a fan of FM, real FM or PD FM. Although I do make use of some stuff in FM8 occasionally.

rsp

Looks overpriced to me as well... I know it's well in their price range, question is if this is still reasonable at current market conditions. Was amazed and hoped at least for real loyal customer discount, the extra presets are not a substitute for me. Too bad, but will pass on this one. Agreed that they decide what their time is worth in first place, but at the end the customer base will make its powerful decision.

[sl1914]

I agree. If the price had been similar to [EDIT :]Saurus, I'd probably bought it. But at its current price I don't see Nemesis doing enough new things compared to what I already have, so I'm skipping this now.

[Examigan]

I agree. If the price had been similar to Taurus, I'd probably bought it. But at its current price I don't see Nemesis doing enough new things compared to what I already have, so I'm skipping this now.

You mean Saurus?

[spirit]

Its $199, how did you get it at $240?

You missed the little "A" in front: A$240 Australian dollars (actually $244)

[GeorgeZ]

You're absolutely spot on. That was as far back as 2005. Maxx Claster took some of the Octopus features (the mod matrix) which subsequently made it to Sytrus. At least that is how I remember it. Octopus can edit up to 32 partials, which I thought was more than enough. It imports wave forms as well.

Errr, Sytrus was developed by gol...

Perhaps he meant Toxic, which later became Biohazard (and is also being published by Image Line). That is from Maxx Claster and a great FM synth. As is Rhino, by Big Tick.

Probably meant Toxic