KVR Audio

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:34 pm

i went to a laptop with all vst synths and a usb controller keyboard for a while. but ended up going back to a hw/sw setup again. theres something about real synths being fed into a good audio card (maudio 1010LT for me) that just sounds bigger and better to me.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:49 pm

I remember what it was like to work with all hardware. It was much less fun when you spent half of your time recalling mixer and processor and patch settings. I don't really see the use in hardware synths outside of a live environment.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:54 pm

build something.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:58 pm

Oh Jesus here we go again...Oooooh Hardware sounds better than Software....makes me want to go on a killing spree.........

ThoughtExperiment · Post by **ThoughtExperiment** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:21 pm

Teksonik wrote:Oh Jesus here we go again...Oooooh Hardware sounds better than Software....makes me want to go on a killing spree.........

At last, the voice of reason...may I join you?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:00 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
ZenPunkHippy wrote:One thing I can say for sure about owning hardware: it makes you want more expensive hardware than what you have now.

Start looking up Serge Panels, for instance. Or Eventide effects units. Trawling Gearslutz Classified for a good deal on a a couple Distressors. Of course 2 are required because they're mono, and it would be terrible to be without the Brit mod / stereo linked / matched pair. How about a UBK Fatso? And ...

It never ends. Well, until you realise that what you have is just fine, including the software

Peace,
Andy.
Yes, and that's just the start of it, right? The thing with software is that if you like a particular unit, you can have as many as you want. Try putting compression on each channel in the old days. I still own three or four shitty rack mount compressors. But, that's not the half of it. If you own a bunch of rack mount processors, and they're all different, and they will be all different, you have to have a patch bay so that you can put the unit you want on the insert that you want.

And, if you've never done this before, no, one patch bay is not enough. As soon as you start getting patch bays, now you're getting a second mortgage just for the cables. Growth doesn't just mean more, it's constantly looking for a good deal on a mixer with more inputs, more sends, better EQ, than the one you have. God forbid if you did this before hard disk recording. Every new project was, at minimum, several new DATs and if there were any acoustic parts that were too big for the sampler, mulittrack reel to reel tape as well, and the good stuff isn't cheap.

Buy a new synth? Well, you have to get that guy into the workflow. That's one or two audio cables to get to the patch bay, a midi cable to get to the midi router, a stand or tier on your existing stand, and wouldn't you know it, you never have enough power strips.

Holy shit, then you get too many power strips and you realize that you hadn't thought about ground loops before and you have to tear the hold thing down and rewire all of the power.

Shit, I spent more on the midi editor, so that I didn't have to program rack mount synths on my knees, than I spend on most plugins today.

I'm going to save this in case I ever get an itch for hardware...

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:07 pm

layzer wrote:i went to a laptop with all vst synths and a usb controller keyboard for a while. but ended up going back to a hw/sw setup again. theres something about real synths being fed into a good audio card (maudio 1010LT for me) that just sounds bigger and better to me.

Independent of sound however, usability and workflow can improve when you're not all in the box. A lot of people like ITB because it eliminates issues like having to completely setup the mix again. You load your project and the settings are right there. That immediacy is what aids productivity. With synth automation, you don't have to spend time mapping (midi) control data in your hardware to synth parameters. At the same time, with a nice knobbed synth, if you were willing to jam live, you never had to do that. You just record your noodlings. The advantage with hardware, if you're willing to give up some flexibility in how you record real time sound changes, is that the "hardware control" knobs are already perfectly mapped to the synth, so there's no time wasted mapping the USB knobs to synth parameters.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:19 pm

The funniest part is when you record your hardware into your computer, turning all that fabled anal goodness -pardon, analogue goodness - into profane 1s and 0s. Then, load that shit up on soundcloud, wich, as the name says, clouds the sound even further. Yippie.

Why not concentrate on making better music instead? Shrugshrug.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:42 pm

For me, its not so much about what sounds 'better'... its about the whole experience. I like the physical hands on of hardware. I just got sick of sitting infront of a screen for hours.

Takes up a lot more space, but its more fun.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:43 pm

deastman wrote: Also, the sound of the Voyager is widely considered to be vastly inferior to that of the original Minimoog.

Maybe. But is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cTZo0qUlK8

Sure, the Model D's oscs sounds brighter, but in that video you can see the work-a-round. It's clear that there is a lot of overlap regardless.

Basically, here's what I think. If the Minimoog had never existed and someone named Robert Moog came out with the Voyager in 2002 we'd all be talking about how good the Voyager is. Instead many people hear what the Voyager isn't instead of what the Voyager is... which is a great sounding synth with a lot of capabilities the Model D didn't have. I don't own either synth so I don't have a dog in that race, but I do have a Sub Phatty and I spend my time enjoying it for what it is instead of lamenting why it's not like something that is no longer made and too expensive to afford for most.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:01 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
layzer wrote:i went to a laptop with all vst synths and a usb controller keyboard for a while. but ended up going back to a hw/sw setup again. theres something about real synths being fed into a good audio card (maudio 1010LT for me) that just sounds bigger and better to me.
Independent of sound however, usability and workflow can improve when you're not all in the box. A lot of people like ITB because it eliminates issues like having to completely setup the mix again. You load your project and the settings are right there. That immediacy is what aids productivity. With synth automation, you don't have to spend time mapping (midi) control data in your hardware to synth parameters. At the same time, with a nice knobbed synth, if you were willing to jam live, you never had to do that. You just record your noodlings. The advantage with hardware, if you're willing to give up some flexibility in how you record real time sound changes, is that the "hardware control" knobs are already perfectly mapped to the synth, so there's no time wasted mapping the USB knobs to synth parameters.

That is really dependent on the hardware... lots of hardware synths have nested menus. Just cause something is 'hardware' does not automatically make it ergonomic, well laid out and immediate to use.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:11 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
deastman wrote: Also, the sound of the Voyager is widely considered to be vastly inferior to that of the original Minimoog.
Basically, here's what I think. If the Minimoog had never existed and someone named Robert Moog came out with the Voyager in 2002 we'd all be talking about how good the Voyager is.

Behold the "mighty" fanboi shootout, my Moog is bigger than yours

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:26 pm

Most hardware is a dedicated computer to specific software these days. Some even have dedicated controllers added to make programming changes on the fly. And even have external routings to other computers for improved editing functions.
The 'pros' are that it uses its own resources and frees up the box for other things. The 'cons' are that they're dedicated for only their own system.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:39 pm

pdxindy wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
layzer wrote:i went to a laptop with all vst synths and a usb controller keyboard for a while. but ended up going back to a hw/sw setup again. theres something about real synths being fed into a good audio card (maudio 1010LT for me) that just sounds bigger and better to me.
You just record your noodlings. The advantage with hardware, if you're willing to give up some flexibility in how you record real time sound changes, is that the "hardware control" knobs are already perfectly mapped to the synth, so there's no time wasted mapping the USB knobs to synth parameters.
That is really dependent on the hardware... lots of hardware synths have nested menus. Just cause something is 'hardware' does not automatically make it ergonomic, well laid out and immediate to use.

Of course, even a lot of really good hardware has that issue, so, if I may use the word, obviously, those aren't the synths that I'm talking about.

I was thinking of how immediate my Future Retro 777 is when I wrote that. Although I like the sound of some ITB 303 sequencers, I've never found one that feels like the 777 for live noodling.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:52 pm

I buy some soft-synths specifically as a redundancy to my hardware synths.
To add more instances ITB and free up the dedicated HW for what it does better on its own in those instances. So far, it's been the best win-win situation.

software VA synthesizers make me wish i had analog hardware.