KVR Audio

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 am

Dasheesh wrote:It's the audio rate updating that makes it special. It's hard to find an instrument that lets you work the filter cutoff at audio rate. It's rare. You want to know why? EDM. It destroys everything it touches.

Now, there is only a few bitches I have with Dune2.... 8 part Multi was one of them. It's ridiculous. I have NEVER IN MY LIFE. Never in waldorf days, never in Virus days..... NEVER seen a multi built with more then 4 parts... the hardware couldn't even handle it and it's pointless. There is NO reason for it.

So all those excellent presets which use 5 or more layers shouldn't be allowed to exist? What an utterly bizarre argument, having more layers doesn't consume more cpu unless they're actually being used, they don't take up more space, so whats the issue?

Also the decision to have audio rate modulation in a synth has literally ZERO to do with any music genre and everything to do with the programmer and the cpu available to play with.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 am

There was NO SUCH THING as EDM when the virus was released. It did NOT exist. We still had something called IDM at the time.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:07 am

Arksun wrote:
Dasheesh wrote:It's the audio rate updating that makes it special. It's hard to find an instrument that lets you work the filter cutoff at audio rate. It's rare. You want to know why? EDM. It destroys everything it touches.

Now, there is only a few bitches I have with Dune2.... 8 part Multi was one of them. It's ridiculous. I have NEVER IN MY LIFE. Never in waldorf days, never in Virus days..... NEVER seen a multi built with more then 4 parts... the hardware couldn't even handle it and it's pointless. There is NO reason for it.
So all those excellent presets which use 5 or more layers shouldn't be allowed to exist? What an utterly bizarre argument, having more layers doesn't consume more cpu unless they're actually being used, they don't take up more space, so whats the issue?

Also the decision to have audio rate modulation in a synth has literally ZERO to do with any music genre and everything to do with the programmer and the cpu available to play with.

I guarantee you I shut off half the layers, and half the affects of every preset I hear before I even play a note on Dune2. I have to pull back the affects on Hive even. it's not about the sound of the affects. It's about the sound of the instrument.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:10 am

Dasheesh wrote:There was NO SUCH THING as EDM when the virus was released. It did NOT exist. We still had something called IDM at the time.

And in which way does this contradict what i said, that it became a major synth for EDM?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:11 am

Arksun wrote: Also the decision to have audio rate modulation in a synth has literally ZERO to do with any music genre and everything to do with the programmer and the cpu available to play with.

Exactly. I don't get this argumentation at all.

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:11 am

Dasheesh wrote: I guarantee you I shut off half the layers, and half the affects of every preset I hear before I even play a note on Dune2. I have to pull back the affects on Hive even. it's not about the sound of the affects. It's about the sound of the instrument.

No, this is clearly about how you work and what you personally like, everyone's different. I think you just have to accept not everyone hears and produces the same way as you

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:15 am

Riddle me this.

For WHAT reason would you need more then a single layer synth in today's digital environment, and wouldn't it be better to put that cpu to use on a better sounding instrument?

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:40 am

Dasheesh wrote:a multitempral synth.

Wtf is a multitempral synth?

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:50 am

Dasheesh wrote:Riddle me this.

For WHAT reason would you need more then a single layer synth in today's digital environment, and wouldn't it be better to put that cpu to use on a better sounding instrument?

Actually Dasheesh has a point. I think layering became a common approach in electronic music when people tried to recreate big and fat sound of hardware synths with first generation of sofsynths. I once saw a trance production masterclass where the guy constructed something that sounded like a basic plucky synth from 3 layers of V-Station, Vanguard and a logic stock synth with shitloads of bus processing on top and he explained that these software synths sound thin and bland compared to his hardware and he has to layer few of them to get more interesting and harmonically rich timbres.

When I started to dissect Dune's stock precets I thought that Dune2 is aimed at recreating this approach with the synth itself, i.e. constructing huge patches by layering thin and basic sounding components. On the one hand - why not if it works and people are used to this? On the other hand today the plugin creators have enough DSP knowledge to make plugins sounding as fat, big, sweet etc as the classic hardware synths and we have enough CPU power to run them so why clutter the mix with hundreds of layers if one can use fewer but better sounding synths/layers.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:37 am

I can make an 8 layer sound that sounds 'thin' and a single layer sound that sounds 'fat' but thats not what layers are for.

Try creating a really complex and animated pad with one layer, or a percussion sound with several parts (attack/body etc).

The layers are there for exactly these type of sounds. If you want to use one layer and set up 4 instances of D2 to get the desired sound, go ahead, but its a lot faster snd easier in one instance.

Ppl assume cos its got 8 layers you have to use them. You dont. It really a simple synth.

If you want to 'fatten' a sound, you can do this at osc level or use unison. You dont need extreme "edm" levels to do this.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:49 am

And you have a point as well.

That's great that we have such a variety of synths for different sounds and approaches

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:57 am

Dasheesh wrote:There was NO SUCH THING as EDM when the virus was released. It did NOT exist. We still had something called IDM at the time.

EDM, Electronic Dance Music, has existed since the 70s. The term was not "invented" until later, but electronic dance music has been produced for a long time, long before the Virus.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:17 am

And IDM as a term was coined in response to EDM

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:30 am

aMUSEd wrote:And IDM as a term was coined in response to EDM

Wasn't it the other way round?

While I knew about IDM since 2005 or so I'm sure that I never heard the word "EDM" before 2010.

Also I believe that EDM is not equal to electronic dance music in general but relates to a very specific subgenre of it (which I personally consider to be the most annoying music ever invented by mankind).

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:32 am

recursive one wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:And IDM as a term was coined in response to EDM
Wasn't it the other way round?

While I knew about IDM since 2005 or so I'm sure that I never heard the word "EDM" before 2010.

Also I believe that EDM is not equal to electronic dance music in general but relates to a very specific subgenre of it (which I personally consider to be the most annoying music ever invented by mankind).

I just thought of it as a counter to the general electronic dance music to say let's have an intelligent version. Obviously you can't have the latter without the former. To me EDM is just an acronym for dance music that is electronic, not a specific sub genre of that.

btw

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... tart=11460

DUNE 2 is out now!!