Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[ionekvr]

Sure am glad I read this thread, and the more I read, the more I know to avoid Avenger. Real shame because the concept is really fantastic, but the atmosphere is negative, the plugin is sadly too unstable for too many people, the sound designers overcharge or don't understand basic market dynamics. Sheesh. Dodged a bullet. Good luck everyone.

[sircuit]

I can only say that i worked 2 months on my expansion, with sampling, looping and making presets.

Why should i sell it for 15€ for example to get more sales?

Er... to get more sales?

I have no dog in this fight but the basics are pretty simple. Sell something for one dollar, you have a lot of one dollars. Sell something for a hundred dollars, you get a very few hundred dollars. Given that distribution costs of volume are negligible, where on that sliding scale so you make the most cash, given your particular market and product? Dunno, but that's the equation every developer has to do.

I’m involved in two similar enough projects, in terms of content and advertising, to compare them. One sells 11.99 subscription, the other one sells for 29.99 (added benefits for the client). The last one brings in more. Less customer support to deal with and more earnings.

I don’t want to imply that everythime this approach is true. But definitely playing the lowest price game is not the way to go.

Assuming that a product will sell like hotcakes just because the price is low/er is simply wrong. Core clients could walk away from the cheap price for various reasons: less added value, too accessible therefore lack of a certain feeling of exclusivity etc. “But, but... why not just reduce the price without lowering the quality or trimming down features?”. Because someone values it’s time fam!

[Elysium.NZ]

I purchased Avenger around Christmas time. My computer is ancient, it's an Athlon II X270 with 8GB of DDR800 RAM. I have a ton of outboard gear and 10 MOTU XT Express MIDI interfaces so my old clunker hasn't really been a big deal.

Anyway, in defence of Avenger, I have NOT found it unstable on my crusty box. Of course it absolutely annihilates my CPU but it has not crashed and not taken out my DAW. I'm not a heavy user yet but I have used it. It's easy to read 5,10,20 reports of instability but that is not everyone's experience.

Grab the demo at least and try it.

[generaldiomedes]

Sure am glad I read this thread, and the more I read, the more I know to avoid Avenger. Real shame because the concept is really fantastic, but the atmosphere is negative, the plugin is sadly too unstable for too many people, the sound designers overcharge or don't understand basic market dynamics. Sheesh. Dodged a bullet. Good luck everyone.

'Some' folks seem to have issues, but 'most' of us do not. Forums are mostly negative anyhow, as people are motivated more by anger than by contentment.

I have, use and love Avenger, and have not had any technical issues (I bought it after the initial GPU issues were fixed,and I run an I7-4720 laptop with a GTX870 GPU). It sounds wonderful, and has more options that I'll ever use in my lifetime. Of the 15 or so softsynths I own, I would put it somewhere in the top 3. Its factory library is second to none.

I do think the libraries need to be priced about $10 lower, but they are higher quality than your typical library. That is about my only complaint. It seems more third party libraries are coming out all the time, so maybe competition will force them to lower the price, but only if the numbers force their hand. We do not know their sales figures and can only speculate.

Vive la Avenger!

[ionekvr]

I purchased Avenger around Christmas time. My computer is ancient, it's an Athlon II X270 with 8GB of DDR800 RAM. I have a ton of outboard gear and 10 MOTU XT Express MIDI interfaces so my old clunker hasn't really been a big deal.

Anyway, in defence of Avenger, I have NOT found it unstable on my crusty box. Of course it absolutely annihilates my CPU but it has not crashed and not taken out my DAW. I'm not a heavy user yet but I have used it. It's easy to read 5,10,20 reports of instability but that is not everyone's experience.

Grab the demo at least and try it.

Like I mentioned before, there's no way to properly test a plugin in a production environment given the limitations of the demo. I've been a beta tester for many DAWs and plugins over many years, and I used to be a programmer, and I'm just not feeling a positive vibe now, unfortunately. So I know when to move on, sad as that may be. Avenger in concept is super amazing, it's deep, inventive, creative, powerful... just no confidence that it will be stable enough for me. If the developer allowed a 14-day or 30-day full demo, with no limitations (like some other developers allow), then I would give it a hard core run with a real project for a real client on a real deadline, and if it worked for me, I'd buy the plugin in a heartbeat before delivering the final files to the client, out of respect for the developers. Given the statistical distribution of kinds of comments in this thread, I sadly don't have a lot of confidence that it would work out. But if the developers change the demo limitations, I'll definitely give it a serious run. Wishing you all the best of luck. But I just don't see Avenger in my immediate future for pro work. One crash in front of a client is one too many. I'd constantly be worried when it was going to happen.

[ionekvr]

'Some' folks seem to have issues, but 'most' of us do not. Forums are mostly negative anyhow, as people are motivated more by anger than by contentment.

I agree that this is often true, but there are too many complaints in this particular thread to ignore -- above the normal amount in a thread like this. Been around for many years, I know my threshold for trusting a plugin in a pro environment. And since there's no way for me to really, truly demo the plugin, I just know from experience it's not going to be worth the risk.

Again, there's no question as to the concept of the plugin -- it's fantastic. Maybe one the best on the market. It's a question of really knowing the stability, and this thread alone has suggested a higher than average number of reports of issues.

[generaldiomedes]

One crash in front of a client is one too many. I'd constantly be worried when it was going to happen.

If that is your requirement, best stick to plugins that have been out for a while and are no longer actively developed like Massive then. Even Kontakt crashes on me regularly (although it recovers quickly) ..

[ionekvr]

One crash in front of a client is one too many. I'd constantly be worried when it was going to happen.

If that is your requirement, best stick to plugins that have been out for a while and are no longer actively developed like Massive then. Even Kontakt crashes on me regularly (although it recovers quickly) ..

Yes, I usually stick with plugins that I've learned to trust, but to suggest that only "plugins that have been out for a while and are no longer actively developed" are more stable is not accurate in my experience.

Some developers have a better track record than others, and some developers really try to broadly test and validate their plugins on several DAWs, and have built up a solid reputation for stability, even on brand new plugins. For example, you can take even your average U-he beta of a new plugin, and it has a far lower average crash report ratio per post than this thread has reported, and Urs Heckmann is very involved in the U-he community to squash bugs when they pop up. My personal experience with U-he is that those plugins are very stable, very early on. There are several developers that I'd trust right out of the gate besides U-he, and they've proven themselves over the years for how they handle bugs when they do happen too. So your suggestion that only older plugins are truly stable is really not accurate.

And yes, I also get occasional issues with industry standard plugins like Kontakt, but it's very rare. NI is generally safe in my experience.

As for my "requirement" it's not black and white about perfect stability. But there needs to be a certain minimal level of trust though. And the statistical distribution in this thread suggests a much higher than average occurrence of problems with Avenger, very much as if this is a constant beta, PLUS there's no way for me to *personally* verify on my system how well this plugin truly works since the demo is too limited. If the developers changed the demo restrictions, I'd fully test it.

[5Lives]

You must not use a DAW if "one crash is too many". Stick to a hardware recorder if that's your feeling or your clients are so temperamental that they will flee at the sight of one technical issue.

If you're so worried about Avenger crashing in a heavy session (which seems more related to the DAW or a plugin that relies on memory management, like Kontakt), freeze the track. Plenty of big time sessions use plugins that don't even have a demo (like Spectrasonics stuff).

You seem to have very unrealistic expectations. The developer is actively involved in this thread, which is far better than many other developers, such as NI. They actively request users to send crash report details to them so they can fix issues. Why would it serve them to not have a stable product, especially since they will likely make far more via expansions? You also probably shouldn't assume the developer doesn't understand market dynamics - you don't know the numbers behind their business, how many customers they have, average expansions sold per customer, etc. You are the one who seems to be missing the fundamentals of market dynamics...

[deejay2]

well

when i compare expansions for avenger from vandalism which they have for sale for £8.99 and now even 3 for price of 2 so this comes to £6 per pack and compare it to avenger official expansions i do not see added value to pay £50 for what official expansions have to offer

you could get 9 of these packs from vandalism if you choose offer 3 for the price of 2 if there would be so many but there is just 5 packs from vandalism right now

and vandalism packs are great quality, shame there is not more from vandalism

yes avenger does crash sometimes it happens to me as well, do they care? no

they care and spend time to introduce some key-file so no one can use someone else expansion instead

this is reason why sylenth and serum and even now spire is so popular, avenger will be deemed.

[ionekvr]

You must not use a DAW if "one crash is too many". Stick to a hardware recorder if that's your feeling or your clients are so temperamental that they will flee at the sight of one technical issue.

If you're so worried about Avenger crashing in a heavy session (which seems more related to the DAW or a plugin that relies on memory management, like Kontakt), freeze the track. Plenty of big time sessions use plugins that don't even have a demo (like Spectrasonics stuff).

You seem to have very unrealistic expectations. The developer is actively involved in this thread, which is far better than many other developers, such as NI. They actively request users to send crash report details to them so they can fix issues. Why would it serve them to not have a stable product, especially since they will likely make far more via expansions? You also probably shouldn't assume the developer doesn't understand market dynamics - you don't know the numbers behind their business, how many customers they have, average expansions sold per customer, etc. You are the one who seems to be missing the fundamentals of market dynamics...

Hi 5Lives, I totally wish you well, sir. I'm glad Avenger is working out for you. I think the whole concept of it is fantastic. This thread just proves it's not for me though. As for my expectations, it's easy to read too much into forum comments and extrapolate what someone might be thinking -- communication is imperfect. But instead of going back and forth and wasting more space from other people's conversations, I'll politely leave the thread. Again, I wish you all the best. I hope the Avenger developers well too, and hope they offer a better option to test the plugin, then I'll be enthusiastic to test it.

[5Lives]

Hi 5Lives, I totally wish you well, sir. I'm glad Avenger is working out for you. I think the whole concept of it is fantastic. This thread just proves it's not for me though. As for my expectations, it's easy to read too much into forum comments and extrapolate what someone might be thinking -- communication is imperfect. But instead of going back and forth and wasting more space from other people's conversations, I'll politely leave the thread. Again, I wish you all the best. I hope the Avenger developers well too, and hope they offer a better option to test the plugin, then I'll be enthusiastic to test it.

Thanks ionekvr - I wish you well too. No hard feelings. Remember, all of these synths are just tools - ultimately, what you do with them matters the most! Have fun, get inspired, and make music.

[Caine123]

wow, 1.3.5 is a bad update guys.... i installed it now and a window pops up



i cannot click anything on it, it doesnt react, when i click it away then it wants my credentials, but i can only type in my email , then when the window somehow disappears i cannot click on SYS etc. cause everything seems to respond over those tabs. any fix? this is bad and i cannot use avenger.... thx

[Mr D]

Don't know if this is relevant for you, but i had problems like this a while ago, the advice (that fixed it) from Rene (the developer) was:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

can you please try following:

Rename the following folder to anything you like and try again:
C:\ProgramData\Vengeance\VPS Avenger

Regards,
Rene

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[Caine123]

Don't know if this is relevant for you, but i had problems like this a while ago, the advice (that fixed it) from Rene (the developer) was:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

can you please try following:

Rename the following folder to anything you like and try again:
C:\ProgramData\Vengeance\VPS Avenger

Regards,
Rene

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thx it kinda worked 1 step, now i had only the login screen and logged in succesfully, after reloading avenger this message pops up and i cannot click anything.

guys this should be tested before release on a minimum of 2-4 macs + some pcs with various hosts.... sorry but this is stuff i cannot stand when bringing in new copyright mechanics etc and as a legal owner i have head aches! even with the love i got for you 1.3.5 is out some time now this should have been fixed or a manual for a fix, the website is still alcking proper sections!