Anything a step up from SQ-8L?

[ENV1]

I just compared the SQ-80 waveforms i got from that website to that i sampled from my ESQ-1 myself a while ago and they look quite different, especially the standard waveforms like e.g. Sawtooth.

I guess the reason is that those SQ-80 were extracted from teh ROm while mine were sampled from the synth output so they also passed the filter (even if that was set to full Cutoff for the samples).

Thats of course right, and since the waves from the ROMs are simply clean conversions of the raw waveforms id say thats to be expected too.

Like with the Ensoniq hardware itself, additional 'flavor' will be imparted by the synth thats processing the waves through its circuitry. Thats more or less inevitable, be it hardware or software. What exactly that flavor is of course depends on the synth and how the raw oscillator signal is being altered by the components that follow. Thus you can get dramatically different results in different kinds of synthesizers even though the waves themselves are always exactly the same.

A good example would be Helix versus z3ta+ and/or Rapture. Ive used the raw SQ-80 waves in all 3 of them and there is a clear difference in flavor between the Audjoo synth and the 2 Rene Ceballos synths. Other synths were downright radically different, so i guess in the end it comes down to just using them with whatever synth is giving you the sound character you seek at that moment. (I.e. there is no 'best'.)

[Ingonator]

Talking about the filter (which is an important part of the sound from SQ-8L, SQ-80 and ESQ-1) so far i got the best results with the 2 "Curtis" filter modes in Tone2 Icarus, the analog Ladder 24db LPF in Synthmaster 2.8 and the "XP Lowpass 4p" in DUNE 2.5. Those filters seem to be nice analog models including zero delay feedback technology.

Other synths i checked where the filter does not fit really well to the bahavior of SQ-8L/SQ-80/ESQ-1 are:
UVI Falcon, VPS Avenger, Tone2 Electra 2.1, Waldorf Nave, Waves Codex, PPG Wavemapper 2, Z3TA+ 2, NI Massive and also Cobalt (new freeware version).
Those sound nice on their own but do not really seem to replicate the filter behavior of the SQ-80/ESQ-1 close enough (not as close as the other 3 mentioned at the beginning). VPS Avenger (Beta) was closest of those and it has nice analog filter models

Waldorf Largo while it does not nail the filter as good as good as the first 3 examples mentioned above could come surprisingly close. Best results so far are with using the 24dB LPF with some Tube Drive and the "Bass boost" in the filter activated. Using the Tube drive is also one of my favorite faetures in the Blofeld (+ using the PPG filter mode there). Besides using all 3 Oscs using additional 2 voice Unison with a little detuning and some stereo spread could make the sound really big/fat (this also works in the Blofeld).
It could not load custom waveforms but has around 68 wavetables so has a huge amount of waveforms included in those (and also has dedicated "standard" VA waveforms).
Besides all that Largo also includes a bunch of advanced features including e.g. Sync, FM, filter FM, Ringmod and a dual multimode filter (including the famous Comb filters).


Other options i do not own myself:
U-He Zebra 2 (including Zebra HZ), Xfer Serum, DiscoDSP Corona

[knowix]

I haven't had time to check, but I'd definitely be curious how the SQ-80 waveforms sound when loaded into TAL Sampler. The Mirage and SQ-80 featured the Ensoniq ES5503 DOC chip, so may have had rather similar architecture.

I think TAL Sampler is more influenced by the EMU than Ensoniq samplers though?

[yul]

Great thread guys! I'll check out Synthmaster I didn't think the filters were at par but I realized they updated them.

[Ingonator]

Great thread guys! I'll check out Synthmaster I didn't think the filters were at par but I realized they updated them.

With Synthmaster 2.8 they added multiple analog models (4 algorithms with differnt modes each). Those sem to involve zero delay feedback filter technology. All new filters have an additional "Acid" feature/button which changes the behavior of the resonance. The new filters also have "nonlineariities" feature with a drop-down menu (default: "Basic").

The best one to fit an ESQ-1/SQ-80 should be the analog Ladder 24dB Lowpass filter (within the "Ladder" algorithm).
A second option could be the Lowpass mode in the "SVF" algorithm while it does not seem to fit as good as the Ladder.
Have not checked to apply different "nonlinearities" modes and/or the "Acid" feature/button yet when comparing to the ESQ-1.

BTW the filter in the ESQ-1 does not self-oscillate.

[carrieres]

hi Ingo,
can you post your Dune2 wavetable ?
thanks

[Ingonator]

hi Ingo,
can you post your Dune2 wavetable ?
thanks

Hi,

here is a download for the SQ-80 samples from the Buchty.net website converted to two Dune 2 wavetables (overall 115 waveforms included):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... tables.zip


The wavetables were craeated using the Beta version of waveform creator tool from Synapse Audio. Opposing to Audio Term this could create DUNE 2 wavetables with 64 waveforms (33 in Audio Term).

As mentioend above the two wavetables overall contain 115 waveforms. While the SQ-80 had 75 selectable waveforms the samples included a bunch of multsamples and i included a bunch of those in the wavetables if they offered a different timbre (as when used as waveforms in the wavetable all samples have the same pitch...). The order of the samples are not the same as in the SQ-80. The first waveforms ar ethe "Standard" VA ones and the rset is sorted alphabetically by the sample names.

I also got an Icarus wavetable with ESQ-1 waveforms sampled by myself but not converted to DUNE 2 yet. I could do that later.

[carrieres]

thanks a lot Ingo !

[Ingonator]

hi Ingo,
can you post your Dune2 wavetable ?
thanks

Hi,

here is a download for the SQ-80 samples from the Buchty.net website converted to two Dune 2 wavetables (overall 115 waveforms included):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... tables.zip


The wavetables were craeated using the Beta version of waveform creator tool from Synapse Audio. Opposing to Audio Term this could create DUNE 2 wavetables with 64 waveforms (33 in Audio Term).

As mentioend above the two wavetables overall contain 115 waveforms. While the SQ-80 had 75 selectable waveforms the samples included a bunch of multsamples and i included a bunch of those in the wavetables if they offered a different timbre (as when used as waveforms in the wavetable all samples have the same pitch...). The order of the samples are not the same as in the SQ-80. The first waveforms ar ethe "Standard" VA ones and the rset is sorted alphabetically by the sample names.

I also got an Icarus wavetable with ESQ-1 waveforms sampled by myself but not converted to DUNE 2 yet. I could do that later.

Here is a ZIP file with 4 wavetables for DUNE 2.5 including the two of the SQ-80 alraedy posted and additionally one based on my own samples of the Ensoniq ESQ-1 and one based on my own samples of the Korg DW-8000:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... %20WTs.zip

The ESQ-1 wavetable besides the 32 first waveforms (in the same order as in the real synth) also includes 25 additional ones based on the "hidden waveforms" that were available with teh latest OS versions.
While the SQ-80 samples seemed to be based directly on the Wave ROM the ESQ-1 samples were captured from the synth output.
The DW-8000 wavetable includes the DWGS 16 waveforms in the same order as in the real synth (those were received from the synth output too, not from the ROM).

[toitoi]

Hello, Ingonator, thanks for this engrossing research it would be cool to hear what you think of Zebra capabilities to emulate that Ensoniq sound.
If you have Reaktor there is a curious implementation of the CEM filter https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/9785/

Is it possible to share wavetables from (ESQ-1 57 waves) and (DW-8000 16 waves) as separate single cycle waves because Audio Term refuses to open them.
thanks

[Ingonator]

Hello, Ingonator, thanks for this engrossing research it would be cool to hear what you think of Zebra capabilities to emulate that Ensoniq sound.
If you have Reaktor there is a curious implementation of the CEM filter https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/9785/

Is it possible to share wavetables from (ESQ-1 57 waves) and (DW-8000 16 waves) as separate single cycle waves because Audio Term refuses to open them.
thanks

Funny thing is while reading this post i just got my Ensoniq ESQ-1 besides me and even switched on...
I was using it again during the last days, same about my Korg Wavestation EX (which i got since 2004) even if i also got the plugin of this (and SQ-8L too even if it is one of the very few 32-bit plugins i still use).

I did not update to Reaktor 6 or Komplete 11 yet so i could not use that filter mentioend in the link.
Now that i mostly use The Legend instead of Monark i also do use Reaktor much less than in the past.

I might offer a download for single WAV files for SQ-80, ESQ-1 and DW-8000 later.

[olepro]

I have tried replicate the SQ80 many times with other synths, but there is something magical in the way it handles the waves.
It is just not enough to have the waves and the same synth architecture.
No matter what, it always sound more fat just by stacking two saw waves with a slight detune.

The closest i got is with Vaz 2010 and Vaz Modular.
They both handles wavetables (to replicate the multi waves from SQ80) and samples to play the attack samples from SQ80.
And they have Ring/Amplitude modulation and oscillator Sync, and good analog sounding filters.

[Ingonator]

As mentioned earlier for me the best choices for replacing the ESQ-1/SQ-80 besides SQ-8L are e.g. Icarus, Synthmaster 2.8, DUNE 2.5 and Largo. I was also able to load the wavetables in Synthmaster One that has comparable and/or similar analog filters like Synthmaster 2.8.

I just started to use my ESQ-1 again also to find if i could replace it for the sounds i need from it or not.

Replicating the whole synth engine seems to be difficult, especially the dedicated VCAs/DCAs for each of the 3 Oscs that are available besides the main VCA. In combination with the 4 ENVs each Osc could have it's own volume envelope.

Replacing the real analog filter is maybe the most difficult task. This is also where SQ-8L, at least at higher resonance amounts, has problems. As mentioned earlier the plugins mentioed above could get close to the filter behavior while many others do not get really close there (including some with tons of features). I mostly excluded those as a replacement that do not have a filter sounding close.

A synth that could load waveatbles and/or custom WAV files and do Osc Sync between the Oscs in the same way as the ESQ-1/SQ-80 seems to be rare too. Same is true about the Ringmod.
My Waldorf Blofeld is an option for both and it could load custom wavetables and/or Samples.
A SQ-80 wavetable for it is available here: http://synth.stromeko.net/Downloads.html

The envelopes in the ESQ-1/SQ-80 could go beyond the usual ADSR which could be another problem with many other synths. Blofeld and Largo got an advanced envelope mode with a second Decay and Sustain stage. Synthmaster 2.8 and DUNE 2.5 got MSEGs.

Novation UltraNova might be another option but i did not directly compare it yet. Has 3 Oscs, Ringmod, VA waveforms, wavetables + single digital waves, 6 envelopes, 3 LFOs and 2 nice sounding multimode filters. The VSync feature available in all 3 Oscs does Sync using a "virtual" additional Osc (comparable to Icarus).

[planetearth]

So for those of us who'd like to use the SQ-8L, but just need to emulate a Curtis filter for it (apparently), can anyone recommend a good free or low-cost one?

I'll try the Reaktor stuff, but for me, Reaktor's not a fun toy. (Besides, loading Reaktor and then setting it up to process audio seems like overkill when you're talking about the self-contained, small-footprint SQ-8L.)

I appreciate @ingonator's efforts on exporting the Ensoniq stuff for use in Dune and Icarus, and I'll down load those, too. But there are some presets in the SQ-8L that I've used in various projects, and I'm a good enough synthesist to try to re-create them in another synth.

Thanks!

EDIT: I did my own search, and found that there was supposed to be a Curtis filter in VST form that was actually on KVR, but the link is no good anymore. The post was from 12 years ago or so.

Steve

[olepro]

I must say that having SQ8L is more than enough for me.
Before that came around i would never believe i would get a vst instrument so incredible close to the Ensoniq SQ80
It was allways a dream for me, but never thought it would happen.

The best right now was if Siegfried Kullmann woke up one morning and started to finish what was nearly done.
I have an old mail from him with a description of all the great things he wanted to implement in SQ8X
But i believe he is another place in life now.