KVR Audio

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:49 pm

i think you left "warm" on, at the amp section

My Spire saw looks just like a regular SAW:

spire saw.JPG

Spire saw with WARM enabled:

spire saw with WARM enabled.JPG

Dúnedain · Post by **Dúnedain** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:53 pm

exmatproton wrote:
Listen. Spire never claims a perfect saw. It is 'their' saw.

What is this?

Compare it to hardware devices. Often you can see drawings of the waveforms on hardware synths. Those are "perfect" representations of theoretical waveforms. If one would record a saw from an hardware synth, changes are huge those aren't "perfect" as well.

Makes sense: agreed.

Besides, the main output is also different when a filter is added for instance.

"Thanks, I already knew that. But again: what goes "wrong" when going from a "perfect" saw in digital domain to analog? What aliasing will be introduced?"

Aliasing is when a soundsource has higher frequency content then nyquist. Because of the steep filter at nyquist, content that is higher pitched then that, will be trown downwards. Mirrored in some sense. This will create a-harmonic content, usually heard in the higher regimes.

I know: but it is about the D -> A conversion what I am after.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:56 pm

Dúnedain wrote:
exmatproton wrote:
Listen. Spire never claims a perfect saw. It is 'their' saw.
What is this?

Compare it to hardware devices. Often you can see drawings of the waveforms on hardware synths. Those are "perfect" representations of theoretical waveforms. If one would record a saw from an hardware synth, changes are huge those aren't "perfect" as well.
Makes sense: agreed.

Besides, the main output is also different when a filter is added for instance.

"Thanks, I already knew that. But again: what goes "wrong" when going from a "perfect" saw in digital domain to analog? What aliasing will be introduced?"

Aliasing is when a soundsource has higher frequency content then nyquist. Because of the steep filter at nyquist, content that is higher pitched then that, will be trown downwards. Mirrored in some sense. This will create a-harmonic content, usually heard in the higher regimes.
I know: but it is about the D -> A conversion what I am after.

Their saw is just fine. Turn off WARM

warm.JPG

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:00 pm

Dúnedain wrote:
I know: but it is about the D -> A conversion what I am after.

Aliasing is created in the A/D process, not in the D/A process.

Dúnedain · Post by **Dúnedain** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:05 pm

exmatproton wrote:i think you left "warm" on, at the amp section

My Spire saw looks just like a regular SAW:

spire saw.JPG

Spire saw with WARM enabled:

spire saw with WARM enabled.JPG

Damn you are right. But I did press the INIT button.

kurodo · Post by **kurodo** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:10 pm

exmatproton wrote:
Their saw is just fine. Turn off WARM

warm.JPG

I agree nothing wrong with Spires Saw.
I find it interesting that each developer has their own take on what they consider an init preset.
Some leave all kind of effects on that mess with the sound.

So in Spires case its just a boost and a wee bit of warmth. To be honest I never noticed them before you posted the pic

I can see why Dúnedain also missed it.

When all is said and done Spire is a very good capable Synth for sure.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:10 pm

Dúnedain wrote:
exmatproton wrote:i think you left "warm" on, at the amp section

My Spire saw looks just like a regular SAW:

spire saw.JPG

Spire saw with WARM enabled:

spire saw with WARM enabled.JPG
Damn you are right. But I did press the INIT button.

Warm is on in the INIT preset

I kinda like it. I have it on always, for some semi-character

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:15 pm

kurodo wrote: So in Spires case its just a boost and a wee bit of warmth. To be honest I never noticed them before you posted the pic I can see why Dúnedain also missed it.

Music making with the ears

Dúnedain · Post by **Dúnedain** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:33 pm

But to answer the initial question: turn the warm button off.

Great synth of course.

Dúnedain · Post by **Dúnedain** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:30 am

While I'm on it: could it be the Spire filters have a little delay of about 50 - 100 ms? For example the perfecto LP4 filter.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:44 am

Dúnedain wrote:
exmatproton wrote:
Listen. Spire never claims a perfect saw. It is 'their' saw.
What is this?

A depiction of the chosen waveform, just like on any other synth, digital, or analog. Did you ever try and compare the waveforms of different synths? They all look different... if you take a TB-303 for example, an analog synth even, the square waveform will look NOTHING like a square waveform, which is typically displayed on the synth. It's simply a depiction so that you know that you have chosen the sawtooth wave, it's not an oscilloscope display.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:02 am

I do this too sometimes. Spire has such a wide variety of functionality and timbres in such a compact form. It's geared for shear and mighty power! It's just so easy to over look a little thing here or there that makes such a large difference in performance. I also find that the decay in the envelopes make a HUGE difference in the entire functionality of the instrument. It can be frustrating and rewarding working with it. I can get the perfect sound one day and the next I can't seem to get there no matter what I do, only to realize I over looked some little nibble or another.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:06 am

TBH, i wasn't aware that the warm setting is always on by default either. I thought that it was a EQ mode. The manual often doesn't help either.

Obvious now though why the saw has that beef down there, warm obviously adds some bottom end. I always left it on too. Guess it really adds some nice character to the sound.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:09 am

The compressor on this thing is also a thing to behold. It's all these little things that you have to keep track of to reproduce sounds. If you don't save your presets you will have a hard time reinventing them later.

Dúnedain · Post by **Dúnedain** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:01 am

chk071 wrote:
Dúnedain wrote:
exmatproton wrote:
Listen. Spire never claims a perfect saw. It is 'their' saw.
What is this?

A depiction of the chosen waveform, just like on any other synth, digital, or analog. Did you ever try and compare the waveforms of different synths? They all look different... if you take a TB-303 for example, an analog synth even, the square waveform will look NOTHING like a square waveform, which is typically displayed on the synth. It's simply a depiction so that you know that you have chosen the sawtooth wave, it's not an oscilloscope display.

No, it IS indeed an oscilloscope. The warm button (still on after pressing init) made me think it was not.

How to get a smooth saw in Spire