Komplete 11 Ultimate Questions and Opinions

[jancivil]

Can anyone recommend any other individual components that are worth grabbing piecemail from the Ultimate package?

Kontour is... unbelievable.

Yes, it is a very solid synth with interesting possibilities and great sound.

I wonder why it seems to be basically ignored. Nowhere near the popularity of Massive or even Razor.

I didn't know that. I have yet to get my head fully around this type of synthesis to program something from scratch but when I bring it out I find something totally fantastic in its folders real quick. Including some GIGANTIC sounds. So this pulse wave modulation is really good for that, apparently. And for some really weird shit.

I think few are speaky the lingo; seems quite complex.

phase modulation

[ghettosynth]

Can anyone recommend any other individual components that are worth grabbing piecemail from the Ultimate package?

Kontour is... unbelievable.

Yes, it is a very solid synth with interesting possibilities and great sound.

I wonder why it seems to be basically ignored. Nowhere near the popularity of Massive or even Razor.

I didn't know that. I have yet to get my head fully around this type of synthesis to program something from scratch but when I bring it out I find something totally fantastic in its folders real quick. Including some GIGANTIC sounds. So this pulse wave modulation is really good for that, apparently. And for some really weird shit.

I think few are speaky the lingo; seems quite complex.

Speak for yourself, at it's core, it's a simple 2 operator FM synth with a filter (two really). The oscillators can modulate each other or be modulated by the feedback path which has its own mix. The complexity largely comes from the complexity of FM with complex waveforms as modulation sources, the use of multiple filters including an advanced comb filter, and from the complexity of the performance modulation system.

It's perfect example of how the union of FM and subtractive technologies in a way that involves the filter(s) in the feedback path is interesting and is far more powerful and useful than FM alone. No 2-op FM synth without filters was ever as interesting.

The state variable, BTW, is the standard R5 state variable and the sound is definitely improved on some patches by replacing it with the 3x oversampled core variant. This costs about 5% more CPU on my system and is totally inaudible on some patches and dramatic on others. I have it selectable with an HQ switch. By default, of course, the new switch state isn't saved with existing patches, but will with any new patches that one creates with it and one can certainly save the state in HQ mode for patches where it matters.

For me, what makes it a great instrument is the macro modulation that, while not as flexible as a totally open modulation matrix, has been carefully designed to expose four musical parameters that can be mapped to sources of expression.

[kevvvvv]

ghettosynth

Can you find 10 products in Ultimate that aren't in standard that you will use? Then that's $20 each. I'm pretty sure that not a one of them will have a lower list price and few, if any, will have a lower used price in the market. Razor seems to go for about $50 give or take.

If you don't want at least 10 products or so, then sure, the price will start to creep up. However, when you start looking at actual used prices of those few things that you want, then that number is probably closer to about 5 products. If you want five products from Ultimate that aren't in Standard, then you are probably better of buying the bundle than you are waiting to get them used.

yeah. i thought it through that way too.

and now i'm a big K11 fan

there's nothing like owning the lot of them, and having them there to catch whatever idea's flying through your head.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Can anyone recommend any other individual components that are worth grabbing piecemail from the Ultimate package?

Kontour is... unbelievable.

Yes, it is a very solid synth with interesting possibilities and great sound.

I wonder why it seems to be basically ignored. Nowhere near the popularity of Massive or even Razor.

I didn't know that. I have yet to get my head fully around this type of synthesis to program something from scratch but when I bring it out I find something totally fantastic in its folders real quick. Including some GIGANTIC sounds. So this pulse wave modulation is really good for that, apparently. And for some really weird shit.

I think few are speaky the lingo; seems quite complex.

Speak for yourself, at it's core, it's a simple 2 operator FM synth with a filter (two really). The oscillators can modulate each other or be modulated by the feedback path which has its own mix. The complexity largely comes from the complexity of FM with complex waveforms as modulation sources, the use of multiple filters including an advanced comb filter, and from the complexity of the performance modulation system.

It's perfect example of how the union of FM and subtractive technologies in a way that involves the filter(s) in the feedback path is interesting and is far more powerful and useful than FM alone. No 2-op FM synth without filters was ever as interesting.

The state variable, BTW, is the standard R5 state variable and the sound is definitely improved on some patches by replacing it with the 3x oversampled core variant. This costs about 5% more CPU on my system and is totally inaudible on some patches and dramatic on others. I have it selectable with an HQ switch. By default, of course, the new switch state isn't saved with existing patches, but will with any new patches that one creates with it and one can certainly save the state in HQ mode for patches where it matters.

For me, what makes it a great instrument is the macro modulation that, while not as flexible as a totally open modulation matrix, has been carefully designed to expose four musical parameters that can be mapped to sources of expression.

On the subject of modifying factory ensembles (or in this case a separate Reaktor product) - any updates to Reaktor or the ensemble (like kontour) will replace any changes you made to it right? So do you copy it to another ensemble to use as your custom version? I was always hesitant to do that because then if there is some update or bug fix to the ensemble, you are using a different version anyways. I e never really paid attention to what gets overwritten in Reaktor updates. I mean if you save snapshots in a factory ensemble do those get overwritten? Seems like it would if the ensembles get updates. Maybe they just don't get updated, I dunno. I just save Reaktor patches in a host.

[ghettosynth]

On the subject of modifying factory ensembles (or in this case a separate Reaktor product) - any updates to Reaktor or the ensemble (like kontour) will replace any changes you made to it right? So do you copy it to another ensemble to use as your custom version? I was always hesitant to do that because then if there is some update or bug fix to the ensemble, you are using a different version anyways. I e never really paid attention to what gets overwritten in Reaktor updates. I mean if you save snapshots in a factory ensemble do those get overwritten? Seems like it would if the ensembles get updates. Maybe they just don't get updated, I dunno. I just save Reaktor patches in a host.

Yes I copy it. Think about it, if there's an update you'll get the new update, but it would overwrite any changes that you've made, so you pretty much have to make a copy. I don't create patches for the factory ensembles, ever. I make a copy to a directory called Factory in my user library and make patches there. I don't care if they get updated really, it has happened, but not enough such that I'd care.

This might be a problem if you are used to using komplete kontrol or maschine, I don't know. For me, it's not a problem.

I should say though, that I have zero purist tendencies with this stuff. I have modified almost all of the factory ensembles and frequency steal bits from them for my own ensembles. That's what I really love about Reaktor and NI using it as the basis for their product development. As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much a win. Yes, there are CPU issues, but I'll take being able to dig in over efficiency any day.

[Kalamata Kid]

I am on K11 and plan to wait for K12 to upgrade to Ultimate.
My feeling is that K12 will include Kontakt 6 and likely
Absynth 6 and/or Massive 2. The samples in the K12 Ultimate
will be very desirable. If not I will wait for the June 2018 sale
and then move up to the K12 Ultimate.

[Caine123]

when is this offer from ni every year? always once in summer?

[mrj1nx]

Ive been trying to understand something. Ive watched a few reviews on kontakt. Many seem to say that its absolutely essential in their workflow, but they also seem to say that its all about the external 3rd party libs. The way I understand it is that most of these are usable with the free kontakt player. I have one of them myself. So then the question is, if youre not buying kontakt for the included libs, then why would it be worth buying?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Ive been trying to understand something. Ive watched a few reviews on kontakt. Many seem to say that its absolutely essential in their workflow, but they also seem to say that its all about the external 3rd party libs. The way I understand it is that most of these are usable with the free kontakt player. I have one of them myself. So then the question is, if youre not buying kontakt for the included libs, then why would it be worth buying?

It costs a chunk of money for developers to license their libraries for the player version, and that's something that ain't going to work out for many smaller developers.

There are tons of free and cheaper libraries from certain developers that seem well worth getting hold of. Sounddust is one such developer

http://dulcitone1884.virb.com/kontakt-instruments

[ghettosynth]

Ive been trying to understand something. Ive watched a few reviews on kontakt. Many seem to say that its absolutely essential in their workflow, but they also seem to say that its all about the external 3rd party libs. The way I understand it is that most of these are usable with the free kontakt player. I have one of them myself. So then the question is, if youre not buying kontakt for the included libs, then why would it be worth buying?

It costs a chunk of money for developers to license their libraries for the player version, and that's something that ain't going to work out for many smaller developers.

There are tons of free and cheaper libraries from certain developers that seem well worth getting hold of. Sounddust is one such developer

http://dulcitone1884.virb.com/kontakt-instruments

+1

Rhythmic Robot is but one of many, seriously, this is an understatement if there ever was one. The vast majority of my 3rd party content is not compatible with Kontakt Player.

[mrj1nx]

Ive been trying to understand something. Ive watched a few reviews on kontakt. Many seem to say that its absolutely essential in their workflow, but they also seem to say that its all about the external 3rd party libs. The way I understand it is that most of these are usable with the free kontakt player. I have one of them myself. So then the question is, if youre not buying kontakt for the included libs, then why would it be worth buying?

It costs a chunk of money for developers to license their libraries for the player version, and that's something that ain't going to work out for many smaller developers.

There are tons of free and cheaper libraries from certain developers that seem well worth getting hold of. Sounddust is one such developer

http://dulcitone1884.virb.com/kontakt-instruments

+1

Rhythmic Robot is but one of many, seriously, this is an understatement if there ever was one. The vast majority of my 3rd party content is not compatible with Kontakt Player.

Ok, I guess that's the part that I never really got then, I assume theres a whole world underneath that veil that I have no clue about then. I did have Komplete a few years ago and I remember feeling very meh about kontakt in general, but I never used any 3rd party stuff or even knew they existed. I'm gonna have to do some research on that.

[jancivil]

Can anyone recommend any other individual components that are worth grabbing piecemail from the Ultimate package?

Kontour is... unbelievable.

Yes, it is a very solid synth with interesting possibilities and great sound.

I wonder why it seems to be basically ignored. Nowhere near the popularity of Massive or even Razor.

I didn't know that. I have yet to get my head fully around this type of synthesis to program something from scratch but when I bring it out I find something totally fantastic in its folders real quick. Including some GIGANTIC sounds. So this pulse wave modulation is really good for that, apparently. And for some really weird shit.

I think few are speaky the lingo; seems quite complex.

Speak for yourself, at it's core, it's a simple 2 operator FM synth with a filter (two really). The oscillators can modulate each other or be modulated by the feedback path which has its own mix. The complexity largely comes from the complexity of FM with complex waveforms as modulation sources, the use of multiple filters including an advanced comb filter, and from the complexity of the performance modulation system.

It's perfect example of how the union of FM and subtractive technologies in a way that involves the filter(s) in the feedback path is interesting and is far more powerful and useful than FM alone. No 2-op FM synth without filters was ever as interesting.

The state variable, BTW, is the standard R5 state variable and the sound is definitely improved on some patches by replacing it with the 3x oversampled core variant. This costs about 5% more CPU on my system and is totally inaudible on some patches and dramatic on others. I have it selectable with an HQ switch. By default, of course, the new switch state isn't saved with existing patches, but will with any new patches that one creates with it and one can certainly save the state in HQ mode for patches where it matters.

For me, what makes it a great instrument is the macro modulation that, while not as flexible as a totally open modulation matrix, has been carefully designed to expose four musical parameters that can be mapped to sources of expression.

I said "I think few are...". When I see 'many are' I may even manage to notice that. This is the first time I've seen any discussion of it here, vs other things which apparently many speaky the lingo of.

At its core it's two operators? Seems simple enough. The feedback methodologies in it, a characteristic of Schmit's design, for one make it complex for me to work with.

In an earlier stage of the project it was a 4-operator synthesizer. By setting the frequencies of two of the sine oscillators to 0 Hz they became sine shapers. With additional parameters for fold-back and asymmetry the shapers became more flexible.

The routing is chosen so that each of the shapers processes the output signal of a sine oscilla- tor. For the different signal paths the amount of wave shaping can be adjusted individually.

[jancivil]

Ive been trying to understand something. Ive watched a few reviews on kontakt. Many seem to say that its absolutely essential in their workflow, but they also seem to say that its all about the external 3rd party libs. The way I understand it is that most of these are usable with the free kontakt player. I have one of them myself. So then the question is, if youre not buying kontakt for the included libs, then why would it be worth buying?

Most probably aren't. I've used a few of the Factory Library items and will again. A _very_ few compared to the whole. So the value for me is that all these other things are made for it; combined with the way they're made for it, the scripting and capability of its ways makes the most advantage of a sample player I know of.

[Phorous]

Took advantage of the offer to upgrade from K9 to K11.

Highlight for me is easily Una Chorda; it sounds great and is extremely customizable. Lots of nice creative stuff builtin to the effects section as well.

Second favorite is Drumlab, so easy to get great, cohesive sounds out of this Kontakt library. I can see myself using this instead of tools like Battery and Groove Agent SE quite often.

Love Supercharger, but I won't take the $25 upgrade to GT unless its VST3. I don't waste my time sidechaining VST2 plugs, plain and simple.

Kinetic Metal is a nice addition for me as well, some very nice evolving textures are possible which is great for my type of music.

The new Reaktor ensembles for me are Rounds, Polyplex, and Form. I could see myself using Polyplex, but the other two seem a bit more EDM centric (arguably Polyplex is EDM centric as well, but Ive gotten some nice sounds out of it for non EDM music)

This is going to be blasphemy of the highest order, but my biggest disappointment is Reaktor 6. I thought I would enjoy the block system. I was wrong. For some reason I much prefer the Reaktor 5 way of working, which is totally insane to me. That and its still not resizable in my DAW.... ugggg....

Discovery Series India is quite fun to work with and really puts forward a great interface, but I can't see myself using it too often.

[GeorgeZ]

This is going to be blasphemy of the highest order, but my biggest disappointment is Reaktor 6. I thought I would enjoy the block system. I was wrong. For some reason I much prefer the Reaktor 5 way of working, which is totally insane to me. That and its still not resizable in my DAW.... ugggg....

... oh dear Please do tell... this (R6 for Blocks) is the only reason why I was considering / tempted to upgrade from K9 to K11.