Physical modelling in 2017

[pdxindy]

Has anyone been fortunate enough to compare it to the Madrona Labs Soundplane? The latter is nearly 2x the price so I'm wondering if it's worth it. Haven't decided if the wood design is cool or stupid.

I love the wood design. I’ve been wanting one of those for years now. However, it still remains Mac-only and too dependent on MaxMSP.

Regarding a foot pedal vs. an MPE controller, I think a Seaboard or Linnstrument combined with a foot pedal and a breath controller would be a mindblowing controller. I’m not even sure if I could think of enough parameters to map all of that to, but I’m tempted to order a breath controller and find out!

I have a foot pedal but I have not plugged it into the Linnstrument yet. I can see doing so in some circumstances however, the Linnstrument by itself is expressive already.

[.jon]

Also, I do not consider the Linnstrument to be particularly expensive. A good quality acoustic guitar can easily cost double. Cheap consumer crap controllers suck and you get what you pay for.

Actually you get a quality acoustic already for the price of a Linnstrument. A standalone instrument lovingly crafted by hand from rare wood that will last for centuries. Compared to a midi controller which requires a computer to produce sound, based on a technology without wider adoption in the hw synth industry and only a handful of compatible software plugins. No guarantee on how long the mechanics or materials last. It doesn't even have knobs, so you need another device to fully control vstis.

I don't think it's a bad product, but it certainly is very expensive for what it is.

That is your subjective opinion...

For what I receive for it, it does not seem expensive at all. I've waited 20 years to finally be able to buy a truly expressive midi controller. It is well worth the price to have a radically new and better capability.

Also, I would not want it to have knobs.

It's really the other way around, the value you get out of it is purely subjective, while I was literally talking about the item itself. I don't disagree with it's value to you of course (I definitely want an MPE controller when standards are established and adopted and the tech matures) but technically it's nothing more than a first-generation computer peripheral with a short expected lifespan until proven otherwise... that costs more than the computer itself.

Also, you not wanting knobs on it does not change the fact that it is incomplete as a synthesizer controller. Many would prefer a single unit for the task, especially considering the low quality of available knob and fader controllers.

[hotmitts]

Just to add that Synthmaster has PM but I don't own it so I've no idea how it is implemented

[pdxindy]

It's really the other way around, the value you get out of it is purely subjective, while I was literally talking about the item itself. I don't disagree with it's value to you of course (I definitely want an MPE controller when standards are established and adopted and the tech matures) but technically it's nothing more than a first-generation computer peripheral with a short expected lifespan until proven otherwise... that costs more than the computer itself.

Also, you not wanting knobs on it does not change the fact that it is incomplete as a synthesizer controller. Many would prefer a single unit for the task, especially considering the low quality of available knob and fader controllers.

I'm talking about the item itself too... it offers functionality that none of the cheap controllers you are talking about can do. That is a fact.

And the Linnstrument hardware is modular. Roger has stated that there will not be a Linnstrument 2. Any material improvements and hardware upgrades can be applied to existing instruments. So no planned obsolescence there.

Clearly it is not for you and you are welcome to your opinion, but I responded for anyone reading this who is considering one... no reason for your skewed and negative opinion to dissuade someone from giving it consideration.

The Linnstrument is a pleasure to use. Every aspect of it reflects a level of design thoughtfulness you will not find among the cheap plastic controllers on the market. You get what you pay for. Plus Kaivo really comes to life when played with a Linnstrument. Same with Sculpture. It is great for physical modeled synths!

[.jon]

You have a strong tendency for extreme fanboy behaviour, more so than anyone else I've met on the internet. There's really no need to get that defensive, I'm criticizing a product for it's flaws and weaknesses, nothing that should incite such an emotional response from someone not involved in the development in any way.

I'm talking about the item itself too... it offers functionality that none of the cheap controllers you are talking about can do. That is a fact.

I'm not talking about any cheap controllers at all. You're correct about rare functionality, expressive playing is only possible on select devices currently. Some of them are even more expensive than Linnstrument, but some are nearly 10 times cheaper. The value you give to the functionality is purely subjective, it being worth a grand is not an objective fact. You just feel so.

And the Linnstrument hardware is modular. Roger has stated that there will not be a Linnstrument 2. Any material improvements and hardware upgrades can be applied to existing instruments. So no planned obsolescence there.

Mechanical wear does not need to be planned obsolescence. He's made high quality instruments for decades, and this one is not an exception, but it's completely new and until I see lasting long enough to justify that price tag, having doubts about longevity is completely justified.

Clearly it is not for you and you are welcome to your opinion, but I responded for anyone reading this who is considering one... no reason for your skewed and negative opinion to dissuade someone from giving it consideration.

Expressive controllers are clearly for me, and I see them in the future for everyone. Unfortunately the current tiny crop of devices are all produced by small companies, crowdfunded or in beta, and carry the cost of innovation in their price. MPE as a standard is a work in progress. It's only supported by 10 software instruments (please note that with one exception, I've only chosen VSTis that do support it), and even fewer hardware instruments. There's more DAWs without MPE support than with, most notably Ableton Live, the most popular DAW in the world.

I find your opinion much more skewed and overly positive.

The Linnstrument is a pleasure to use. Every aspect of it reflects a level of design thoughtfulness you will not find among the cheap plastic controllers on the market. You get what you pay for. Plus Kaivo really comes to life when played with a Linnstrument. Same with Sculpture. It is great for physical modeled synths!

No doubt, and for 1500e nobody would expect anything less. After all, it's 700e more than Deepmind, a 12-voice analog polysynth. Or 400e more than a Korg synth with 88 hammer-action keys. Or as much as a Moog Subsequent-37. Or just 100e less than a Prophet Rev 2. It is a ton of money for a computer peripheral that doesn't make a sound without a computer with selected software.

Seriously, all I'm saying that similar and even superior devices will end up costing well under 1000e, if and hopefully when MPE actually becomes a widely adopted standard. The Korgs, Akais, Novations and Yamahas of this world will take care of bringing the price point down to a mainstream level. It will be a great time for musicians, today it's early adopter stuff with the standard caveats inbuilt into every new technological advance.

[pdxindy]

You have a strong tendency for extreme fanboy behaviour, more so than anyone else I've met on the internet. There's really no need to get that defensive

I'm not defensive... I'm annoyed at your arrogance. You are unpleasant to talk to, aggressive and attacking in how you speak.

[pdxindy]

It's only supported by 10 software instruments

It's closer to 20... I have more than 10 myself.

[Krakatau]

In my opinion, a next step in modeling existing instruments (piano, orchestral solo strings, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, etc...) would be modeling ethnic and exotic instruments in both their traditional scales and diatonic ones, of course, to make them easily usuable...

[pdxindy]

In my opinion, a next step in modeling existing instruments (piano, orchestral solo strings, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, etc...) would be modeling ethnic and exotic instruments in both their traditional scales and diatonic ones, of course, to make them easily usuable...

As well as modeling specific instruments, I'd love to see more physical modeled instruments like Sculpture

[.jon]

I'm not defensive... I'm annoyed at your arrogance. You are unpleasant to talk to, aggressive and attacking in how you speak.

Unfortunately that is just plainly and simply untrue, as anyone can read from the posts in this thread. If you're reading such into this conversation and completely ignore your blatant attack and aggressive tone, it just confirms your defensiveness. You really shouldn't take opinions or facts contrary to yours or your misconceptions as attacks, it's the nature of discussion.

[Michael L]

In my opinion, a next step in modeling existing instruments (piano, orchestral solo strings, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, etc...) would be modeling ethnic and exotic instruments in both their traditional scales and diatonic ones, of course, to make them easily usuable...

AAS just released such a bank for String Studio, "Masala"

[Krakatau]

In my opinion, a next step in modeling existing instruments (piano, orchestral solo strings, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, etc...) would be modeling ethnic and exotic instruments in both their traditional scales and diatonic ones, of course, to make them easily usuable...

AAS just released such a bank for String Studio, "Masala"

indeed, listening to the demo right now

https://www.applied-acoustics.com/masala/

some VERY impressive and convincing ethnic presets,(that implies a dedicated step-by-step sequencing work too !!) outstanding work of sound design on that focus !

...a first step IMHO though, being created from a generic PM instrument

[mcnoone]

Sculpture is the best physical modeling synth at this time.
I know it, because I am the greatest authority on this and every subject.
Thank you.

Seriously though...it's really good.

[pdxindy]

Sculpture is the best physical modeling synth at this time.
I know it, because I am the greatest authority on this and every subject.
Thank you.

Seriously though...it's really good.

I initially bought Logic, just to get Sculpture... I wish there were more synths like it. It could also use a GUI refresh. It also happens to play nicely with my Linnstrument!

[Michael L]

...a first step IMHO though, being created from a generic PM instrument

No, it's a quite versatile "String" instrument. You can change the plectrum, body shape, etc.

But if you want a dedicated generic Ethnic instrument:
http://nusofting.liqihsynth.com/knagalis.html

Or a highly specialised PM/FM Harmonium:
http://nusofting.liqihsynth.com/peti.html

(NuSofting makes the "Extreme-PM" instrument Modelonia)