I certainly like constructive criticism - it's the only way I can improve. Most of the time the SC comments are right - although, if I feel I have a reason for my choice of sound/mix or whatever, then I will reply to the comment.
... and yes, 0-6 scale was needed this time - but the 6 is for the real stunning track! I have had to use 1-5, and simply ignoring the fact that my own track is a "1". Not sure how long I will jiggle the tracks around - always something new hits my ears as I re-listen.
On the "loudness" topic - just to say I didn't use Compression or Limiting at all on my Zebralette track. All tracks simply gain staged and the final master channel was SlickEQ and a mild touch of Ferric TDS. So, if it's too loud then I apologise - I could have rendered at say -12dB or whatever ...
Just a few thoughts while I am here ...
dB
One Synth Challenge #104 - Zebralette by u-he (Photonic Wins!)
-
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Well, you sure have made me very happy, mmGhost! 
I'm just glad that I may be allowed to assume you didn't mind my concern, commented on SC?!
...you always do pretty powerful tracks, you know, kinda in the flawless arena even.
Anyway, I'm afraid you guys know that I'm sometimes possibly a bit too outspoken even. When something rubs me the wrong way, I may even have a hard time holding back. Even then I am usually trying to respect all that I do deeply respect about any particular track. This now has absolutely nothing to do with yours, mmG!
As much as I try to stay neutral, sometimes there these really, really deeply disrespectful sounding genres, regardless the rest of the quality, if it is basically a decent imitation of a spiteful genre, I just can't appreciate it. Thankfully that's less and less the case and most tracks show far more taste and many find their original "voice" by now. That's some of the biggest pleasures for me to witness.
So, yeah, I'm not fully unbiased, and when something walks the edge, it really needs to be original and not some "me, too" assault.
Even Jasinski, who's technically AND musically absolutely outstanding, really an artist, he sometimes lost his originality to himself, hahaha, which is the weirdest freaking thing to say, I know. I honestly pray that you guys will let me know, when that happens to me, please!
We all have certain tendencies, of course. I think, it's the styles that are so rich in contrast, which make certain patterns eventually just too predictable with too little payoff in terms of sensation.
...I keep writing, so sorry, just skip it, but I really want to go on...
DubStep is a tricky topic, really. It's so highly identifiable, because it has these damn near identical catch-phrases, which virtually always tell the listener to get lost, just nasty, and no other musically redeeming factors, with super few exceptions. These may manage to hang on to some consistency in the track itself, but they are rare. And most of the time it's really not much more than imitation, likely with no understanding what this expresses other than arbitrarily spiteful rage or disdain.
One can make use of some of its qualities, even rhythmically it can be very compelling, but then find your own voice with it, have an actual reason to use it other than just plucking it in like the 4th pair of style-glasses around your neck or so, hehehe.
Enough! I apologize, but I don't know...with whom else am I supposed to share this?
...and I sincerely mean to inspire, to give those a push, who may be thinking about doing another dubstep track: Know what you mean and mean it! Don't just replicate something, because you liked it- or worse- because it was hip. Only truly original styles should ever be permitted to show in a song without the musician knowing what he means, hahahaha...haha....
... 
...anyway.
Boy, oh, boy, I really hope you guys don't mind. Nobody needs to "defend" themselves, really, that's not what this was for. These are thoughts, not attacks.
I'm just glad that I may be allowed to assume you didn't mind my concern, commented on SC?!
...you always do pretty powerful tracks, you know, kinda in the flawless arena even.Anyway, I'm afraid you guys know that I'm sometimes possibly a bit too outspoken even. When something rubs me the wrong way, I may even have a hard time holding back. Even then I am usually trying to respect all that I do deeply respect about any particular track. This now has absolutely nothing to do with yours, mmG!
As much as I try to stay neutral, sometimes there these really, really deeply disrespectful sounding genres, regardless the rest of the quality, if it is basically a decent imitation of a spiteful genre, I just can't appreciate it. Thankfully that's less and less the case and most tracks show far more taste and many find their original "voice" by now. That's some of the biggest pleasures for me to witness.
So, yeah, I'm not fully unbiased, and when something walks the edge, it really needs to be original and not some "me, too" assault.
Even Jasinski, who's technically AND musically absolutely outstanding, really an artist, he sometimes lost his originality to himself, hahaha, which is the weirdest freaking thing to say, I know. I honestly pray that you guys will let me know, when that happens to me, please!
We all have certain tendencies, of course. I think, it's the styles that are so rich in contrast, which make certain patterns eventually just too predictable with too little payoff in terms of sensation.
...I keep writing, so sorry, just skip it, but I really want to go on...
DubStep is a tricky topic, really. It's so highly identifiable, because it has these damn near identical catch-phrases, which virtually always tell the listener to get lost, just nasty, and no other musically redeeming factors, with super few exceptions. These may manage to hang on to some consistency in the track itself, but they are rare. And most of the time it's really not much more than imitation, likely with no understanding what this expresses other than arbitrarily spiteful rage or disdain.
One can make use of some of its qualities, even rhythmically it can be very compelling, but then find your own voice with it, have an actual reason to use it other than just plucking it in like the 4th pair of style-glasses around your neck or so, hehehe.
Enough! I apologize, but I don't know...with whom else am I supposed to share this?
...and I sincerely mean to inspire, to give those a push, who may be thinking about doing another dubstep track: Know what you mean and mean it! Don't just replicate something, because you liked it- or worse- because it was hip. Only truly original styles should ever be permitted to show in a song without the musician knowing what he means, hahahaha...haha.... ... ...anyway.Boy, oh, boy, I really hope you guys don't mind. Nobody needs to "defend" themselves, really, that's not what this was for. These are thoughts, not attacks.
-
- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
Well, I have told you I also tried that same first option for your track as well....TrojakEW wrote:
BTW I have voted. First time I'm missing option to have 0(for own track) or 6 point category for voting.
And finally I've finished voting )))
-
- KVRAF
- 2097 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
That personal development of someone dedicating her/himself to some form of art starts in a phase of "apprenticeship" which is the phase where you add things to your toolbox, skills that allows to *copy/immitate* the masters art, to understand what the masters do and how they do it and why. It's about learning their approaches and techniques...this comes with a lot of trial and error...real artist with inspiration then go beyond that and develop their own style and they exceed. But only very few reach that phase like a Picasso did. That said please don't skip that immitation phase, go on and try your best on dub step whenever you like. But please be prepared that not everybody likes it...and there will be constructive feedback and some that is not so constructive...if your dedicated, just make the best of it...that's just how things work.Taron wrote:and I sincerely mean to inspire, to give those a push, who may be thinking about doing another dubstep track: Know what you mean and mean it! Don't just replicate something, because you liked it- or worse- because it was hip. Only truly original styles should ever be permitted to show in a song without the musician knowing what he means, hahahaha...haha....
Boy, oh, boy, I really hope you guys don't mind. Nobody needs to "defend" themselves, really, that's not what this was for. These are thoughts, not attacks.
-
- KVRist
- 291 posts since 24 Aug, 2009 from CO, USA
heh, didn't intend to open the floodgates, sorry 'bout that, my comments were not aimed at any one track or artist in any way. my intent was simply leave some feedback regarding using a master limiter to such a degree that tracks are audibly distorted, unless of course that is your artistic intent.
in any case, don't interpret what i say too seriously, i'm just a guy that makes some tunes sometimes...
need to finish scoring these tracks!
in any case, don't interpret what i say too seriously, i'm just a guy that makes some tunes sometimes...
need to finish scoring these tracks!
-
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Ahahaha, it doesn't take much to open them gates! ...but it looks like it released some very valuable pressure this time around. Whatever you did, it did good from what I read.
Peter got a little worried for no reason, but that actually is almost more charming than I had anticipated, hehehe. Peter, you're doing mighty fine mixes and some curiously original stuff, too.
Not to mention that I find your tips on SC very good food for thought!
As for your pathological antithesis to what I'm saying...well... hey, keeps the energy flowing! 
We all have our own philosophies, of course. I just think that good talent is wasted, if it accidentally finds a comfort zone behind some imitation, while there's potential that needs a different kind of guidance to really become as meaningful and as powerful as it can be.
There's one additional trouble with imitation, by the way: It is impossible to judge it without comparing. The moment you try to imitate a master, you also make that master the reference. But without knowing the whole of what that master understood, you just don't have the foundation, the true motivation, and it can't quite stand against the reference.
So much more to say...<sigh> ...also, don't get me wrong, in one way or another, we all "imitate" aspects of music or other things we've encountered in life. It's always fantastic to have an opportunity to experiment with different styles. Heck, I do this constantly. But my motive- just to speak for myself, not demanding this from anybody, but just sharing it- my motive is for the music itself. I do very much enjoy to impress, of course, it's great fun. But that fun is not my motive. I love to challenge myself, too, but that, too, is not my motive. I want to discover ways of expression, ways of illustrating in sound, ways of sharing sensations, telling stories, communicating on a different level. So I use every opportunity to explore and build up ways to do so. And it gives me pure, true and enormously powerful fun, real happiness. Even real sadness can turn into this sensation of being lucky. Music, and especially the ability to create it, is one of the most wonderful privileges we have. ...and now I'm totally off the rails, aren't I!? 
Hey, this thread is nearly over, we won't block anything vital right now anyway, so why not "chat"!
...but it looks like it released some very valuable pressure this time around. Whatever you did, it did good from what I read.Peter got a little worried for no reason, but that actually is almost more charming than I had anticipated, hehehe. Peter, you're doing mighty fine mixes and some curiously original stuff, too.
Not to mention that I find your tips on SC very good food for thought!
As for your pathological antithesis to what I'm saying...well... hey, keeps the energy flowing!
We all have our own philosophies, of course. I just think that good talent is wasted, if it accidentally finds a comfort zone behind some imitation, while there's potential that needs a different kind of guidance to really become as meaningful and as powerful as it can be.
There's one additional trouble with imitation, by the way: It is impossible to judge it without comparing. The moment you try to imitate a master, you also make that master the reference. But without knowing the whole of what that master understood, you just don't have the foundation, the true motivation, and it can't quite stand against the reference.
So much more to say...<sigh> ...also, don't get me wrong, in one way or another, we all "imitate" aspects of music or other things we've encountered in life. It's always fantastic to have an opportunity to experiment with different styles. Heck, I do this constantly. But my motive- just to speak for myself, not demanding this from anybody, but just sharing it- my motive is for the music itself. I do very much enjoy to impress, of course, it's great fun. But that fun is not my motive. I love to challenge myself, too, but that, too, is not my motive. I want to discover ways of expression, ways of illustrating in sound, ways of sharing sensations, telling stories, communicating on a different level. So I use every opportunity to explore and build up ways to do so. And it gives me pure, true and enormously powerful fun, real happiness. Even real sadness can turn into this sensation of being lucky. Music, and especially the ability to create it, is one of the most wonderful privileges we have. ...and now I'm totally off the rails, aren't I!?
Hey, this thread is nearly over, we won't block anything vital right now anyway, so why not "chat"!
-
- KVRAF
- 2097 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
I'm "just a guy that makes some tunes sometimes" and by accident does all these nice tutorials...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGqeU8_ ... kMv1PcrKpmmmGhost wrote:heh, didn't intend to open the floodgates, sorry 'bout that, my comments were not aimed at any one track or artist in any way. my intent was simply leave some feedback regarding using a master limiter to such a degree that tracks are audibly distorted, unless of course that is your artistic intent.
in any case, don't interpret what i say too seriously, i'm just a guy that makes some tunes sometimes...
need to finish scoring these tracks!
Aha...
-
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
What the...what the hell? Why, how, since when... I mean, I had no idea you did this, Chris!? 
That's very, very cool!
(plus, just to clarify, you're always original in my eyes (to my ears), by the way, because it always feels to me you mean it, regardless as to where it goes. It just really feels like you want it, too, you know!)
Hm, I'm having the tutorial run in the background, I can't remember that song at all?!? Might've somehow missed it. I really don't know it.
Was that an OSC track? Those drums are sick!
OOOOOHHHH, yes, the OB-XD, I missed that one! Damned...
(Or I got really lucky, hehe)
Really good stuff!
Thanks, Peter, for bringing that up again!!!
That's very, very cool!
(plus, just to clarify, you're always original in my eyes (to my ears), by the way, because it always feels to me you mean it, regardless as to where it goes. It just really feels like you want it, too, you know!)
Hm, I'm having the tutorial run in the background, I can't remember that song at all?!? Might've somehow missed it. I really don't know it.
Was that an OSC track? Those drums are sick!
OOOOOHHHH, yes, the OB-XD, I missed that one! Damned...
(Or I got really lucky, hehe)
Really good stuff!
Thanks, Peter, for bringing that up again!!!
-
- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
Thanks for the post peter...
Not my style of music>> BUT wow.. WOW... some great sounds there AND Technics.. very impressive production.
Any comment from mmGhost should be taken as a compliment... )))
Not my style of music>> BUT wow.. WOW... some great sounds there AND Technics.. very impressive production.
Any comment from mmGhost should be taken as a compliment... )))
-
- KVRer
- 15 posts since 17 Jul, 2009 from Dinslaken, Germany
Voted! 
This was my first participation in OSC. To resume, I can say, voting ist much harder than making music for OSC.
I think I'll listen now to Thelonious Monk or Charles Mingus, perhaps Oliver Nelson's "Blues and the Abstract Truth".
This will be a contrast program for my ears!
This was my first participation in OSC. To resume, I can say, voting ist much harder than making music for OSC.
I think I'll listen now to Thelonious Monk or Charles Mingus, perhaps Oliver Nelson's "Blues and the Abstract Truth".
This will be a contrast program for my ears!
If you don't fail - you didn't even try
-
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
...you do know that you don't have to vote all tracks in one day, right?! I can promise you, there were "harder" times!
-
- KVRAF
- 4321 posts since 26 Jun, 2004
Wow,
Super duper impressive bunch of tracks folks.
(And I use Zebralette a lot, so Im not just impressed by its tricks! )
Super duper impressive bunch of tracks folks.
(And I use Zebralette a lot, so Im not just impressed by its tricks!
)
-
- KVRian
- 860 posts since 13 Jan, 2013 from United States
The best part of OSC is getting constructive feedback. I try to comment on something I like in every track, because I believe people should be recognized for making the effort, and often it's something that may not be conventional. I definitely skew more towards appreciating creativity and composition, but sound design and production cannot be minimized in evaluating OSC tracks. This competition has a very high bar!
So here's a question -- given a track that is super-creative, but mediocre produced vs a track that is super-produced but mediocre creatively -- how do you score? (just curious on people's thought process....)
So here's a question -- given a track that is super-creative, but mediocre produced vs a track that is super-produced but mediocre creatively -- how do you score? (just curious on people's thought process....)
-
- KVRist
- 291 posts since 24 Aug, 2009 from CO, USA
My scores are in.
I gotta say: I've been away from the OSC for about a year and the composition, sound design and overall impact of the tracks has been taken up several notches since then. Hats off to you lot. Just really impressive stuff all around. If I can find time to enter the next comp I may have to re-evaluate my grading criteria b/c I've never had so many 4's and 5's. Lots of fun to listen to and has kind of inspired me in a lot of ways.
I'd encourage you all to look at my scores. if you have questions hit me up. there were a few tracks i unfortunately dinged due to distortion on the master... i'm going to make a new post...
I gotta say: I've been away from the OSC for about a year and the composition, sound design and overall impact of the tracks has been taken up several notches since then. Hats off to you lot. Just really impressive stuff all around. If I can find time to enter the next comp I may have to re-evaluate my grading criteria b/c I've never had so many 4's and 5's. Lots of fun to listen to and has kind of inspired me in a lot of ways.
I'd encourage you all to look at my scores. if you have questions hit me up. there were a few tracks i unfortunately dinged due to distortion on the master... i'm going to make a new post...
-
- KVRist
- 291 posts since 24 Aug, 2009 from CO, USA
~Some (mixing) tips for the OSC~
- Master Limiter - I know people like it loud. I do too. But please, do not get loudness with the master limiter and sacrifice a clean mix-down. If your mix is good and loud, if you are having to push the master limiter beyond 3 dB gain reduction to get the track as loud as you want, you really need to go back to the mix.
Low-Mids - I've noticed on many tracks the low-mids tend to get in the way. This is the 200-500 Hz region (depending on who you are talking to). This area causes things to get muddy if you don't tame it. Especially on Kicks and Bass. Cutting too much here can leave elements in the mix lifeless, so be careful. But its good to A/B your more bassy elements with a cut in this region to see if it tightens the mix a bit.
Pads - I've also noticed a tendency to over-mix the pads in a lot of tracks. Pads (as you know) are often sustained sounds. If they are mixed in at a high volume they totally overwhelm the listener and it can be a little tiring to listen to, especially if they have little to no modulation on them. I kept asking myself if this is just a style thing but I don't think so. 9 times out of 10 I think a mix-down can be improved by taming the pads a bit and letting the percs and melodies pop through more.
Composition (not mixing) - i think the tracks that score the best take the listener on a journey. I went back and had a listen to a few of the past month's winners, and this seems to be a consistent thread. Listen to Taron's stuff, Meakaale, etc. All of these tracks crescendo and intensify, and have a feeling of release at times. Not just an onslaught of sound for 4 minutes. Always bringing in new elements that renew interest in the theme. Photonic wrote a piece that was almost like one long crescendo. Peter H's Stukas track kept me wondering when i'd hear "that vocal" again. Listen to the master, Bach, everything he wrote builds tension and release.
