I think tricks is all what the last OSC rounds was about? So many stories about hidden features...this was a bit like the c64 demo scene where some demos were just be made out of one special feature discovered by some curious hacker.
I think it's not good to tell people to focus on this and that. I think new things, unexpected sounds, disturbing frequencies, wrong rhythms that sound right can only be invented if there's some sort of will to challenge the status quo and let lose. I mean I can go and get me some standard blues, jazz, pop arrangement from the internet and try to get piano and trumpet out of each and every synth...I don't...i look for soundscapes that have some special sensoric properties as I did a lot of work on depth and width genetally mixing in the past OSCs...
So lokken...just go for it, surprise me with crazy stuff be it a stockhausen, or that guys symphonie where a quater note means a month of playing, or radio receivers, do what ever you want...if it's "reasonably" within the rules.
One Synth Challenge #104 - Zebralette by u-he (Photonic Wins!)
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- KVRAF
- 2094 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
You're like a pathological antithesis, Peter! 
...I was almost going to add: OSC#103 was a different story, where you'd likely wanted to pull out all the stops!
Anyhow, with something like Zebralette I believe it's more important to spend time on figuring out how far you can take the synth, rather than how far you can take your DAW's plugins. It's a TIP to focus on the things that should matter most, which I believe is the Synth and the Music (Or whatever you like to do Peter, which ain't necessarily music, I know!).
Take my TIP or leave it, it's just my 2 cents, of course. Why risk hovering on the edge of DQ, if there's so much more to do?
...I was almost going to add: OSC#103 was a different story, where you'd likely wanted to pull out all the stops!
Anyhow, with something like Zebralette I believe it's more important to spend time on figuring out how far you can take the synth, rather than how far you can take your DAW's plugins. It's a TIP to focus on the things that should matter most, which I believe is the Synth and the Music (Or whatever you like to do Peter, which ain't necessarily music, I know!).
Take my TIP or leave it, it's just my 2 cents, of course. Why risk hovering on the edge of DQ, if there's so much more to do?
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- KVRist
- 119 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Chicagoland, USA
Pretty excited about this month. Zebra2 was my go-to for years, until I got into Synthmaster after the OSC, and lately SM One is my shiz. Not only is Zebra a really good VA, with underrated FM, but those oscillator FX take you places you would never even imagine. I'm loving once again exploring the wavetable capabilities. If you're unsure of how to make your own waves in Zebrallette, and how to scan between them, or how to use the MSEG, I'd highly reccomend you find a Zebra tut on how to use those parts of Zebrallette. They are the exact same.
No noise kinda sucks when making percussive sounds, but I'm getting by. Also, I never realized how much I use filter resonance, but am finding other crazy sounds I would normally not create, and will gladly use those. This thing makes some killer glassy pads.
Take your time going through the oscillator fx, one after another, because it's hard to know how they will effect a given sound.
Excited to hear what everyone comes up with. Good luck.
No noise kinda sucks when making percussive sounds, but I'm getting by. Also, I never realized how much I use filter resonance, but am finding other crazy sounds I would normally not create, and will gladly use those. This thing makes some killer glassy pads.
Take your time going through the oscillator fx, one after another, because it's hard to know how they will effect a given sound.
Excited to hear what everyone comes up with. Good luck.
Logic Pro X : Prophet Rev2, Blofeld, Toraiz-AS1, Model D, Minibrute, MOTU 828x, Presonus Eris E7's, dozens of pedals
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Yeah, I'm really on a bit of a roller coaster ride with it. On one hand it's amazing and on the other it somehow has a kind of sample-based feel, which never fully makes me happy. It lives in its own sound nature, a hint of plastic, a bit of mickey mouse, and it always feels like you could get away from it until somehow it feels futile to try. Once you accept its space, it's brilliant, really.
I just keep running into my own paranoia that I'll hate my sounds the next day or that they really don't work out of context at all.
Anyway, you'll figure out how to make proper noise with it very quickly and you can create some excellent percussion with it! Because those are generally on one note, one could even consider those a strong suit of Zebralette.
I just keep running into my own paranoia that I'll hate my sounds the next day or that they really don't work out of context at all.
Anyway, you'll figure out how to make proper noise with it very quickly and you can create some excellent percussion with it! Because those are generally on one note, one could even consider those a strong suit of Zebralette.
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Not sure just how much I might hate this one later on, but here's a literally hand-drawn piano preset, which really starts to feel kind of interesting...
It's always the highest challenge for me to create a really decent piano with any synth, preferably a single instance, of course, because that's when a measure of magic appears to be highly necessary.
So, here's a first time approach of hand drawing the most relevant character for each note across the keyboard...though I did morph between major character changes. It is starting to sound like something, I find...
I'd be interesting to hear what you think about it?! My ears gradually turn worthless for judgement... :shrugs:
It's always the highest challenge for me to create a really decent piano with any synth, preferably a single instance, of course, because that's when a measure of magic appears to be highly necessary.
So, here's a first time approach of hand drawing the most relevant character for each note across the keyboard...though I did morph between major character changes. It is starting to sound like something, I find...
I'd be interesting to hear what you think about it?! My ears gradually turn worthless for judgement... :shrugs:
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
Hehe when I started to play with this synth I was sure the piano can be doable so I started experimenting. Not sure how is your piano sounds but I was able to almost finish my. Already got about 10 different attempts. Problem is it sound "good" only on one octave and then higher or lower get bad. Not able to use keyfollow correctly. Using Scrable on first and Filter on scecond FX with custom drawn wavetable.
Synth is nice but percs are tricky to do. Hihats and shakers are quite hard. I was able to do about 7 variatons of snare preset but still need to work on it.
Synth is nice but percs are tricky to do. Hihats and shakers are quite hard. I was able to do about 7 variatons of snare preset but still need to work on it.
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Oh man, I went through the insanity of actually using GeoMorph to make all my waveforms now and it's quite interesting. It is really tough to tweak and a pain without something like a grid for orientation or the likes, but well...
Funny enough, if I pick one waveform higher than center it becomes a really elegant harp, too.
I'm using Scale and ChopLift to get attack and filtering, but then dual with a little Detune and almost full width to get a bit more complexity.
Would you want to see my GeoMorph piano? I'm planning on waiting for requests to show what I got rather than "forcing" it on you.
So, yeah, even now I can't make up my mind about Zebralette. I've had no trouble with hihats or cymbals or shakers. Consider using low octaves to generate more noise type effects with the scrambler and the filter at highpass (to the right) with possibly some phase modulation or even sync and you get a nice array of complex high percussion.
Funny enough, if I pick one waveform higher than center it becomes a really elegant harp, too.
I'm using Scale and ChopLift to get attack and filtering, but then dual with a little Detune and almost full width to get a bit more complexity.
Would you want to see my GeoMorph piano? I'm planning on waiting for requests to show what I got rather than "forcing" it on you.
So, yeah, even now I can't make up my mind about Zebralette. I've had no trouble with hihats or cymbals or shakers. Consider using low octaves to generate more noise type effects with the scrambler and the filter at highpass (to the right) with possibly some phase modulation or even sync and you get a nice array of complex high percussion.
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
No no no keep it. You can show it after osc. Well I'm just using one wavetable. I'm too lazy to make different for different notes. Instead I'm trying to use "filters" to change sound with keyfollow but with not very good resultsTaron wrote:Would you want to see my GeoMorph piano?
.Regarding percs, I'm not saying it is immposible to make hihats and shakers but with this synth it is hard. Still thinks the best free synth for percs from my experience are Lords of the springs and OBXD.
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
...Thank you! I think, I missed the OBXD month, but LotS really shocked me for how amazing it is for percs. It automatically sounds full, complex and alive. I'm almost afraid there's virtually no way whatsoever to make Zebralette sound truly alive. It just is a cyborg
synth at heart.Pity, because it feels so close to being incredible and I remember having the same feeling about Zebra itself. I wished I could really quantify it, what ever my problem appears to be with U-He's stuff. I'm in awe on one hand and totally ambivalent on the other, almost disappointed. Shit, I can't tell what it is. Sterility?
Anyway, squinting with my ears, I really am having fun right now with plenty of suspensions of disbelieve and such. Ah, I think, my favorite U-He synth was ...pfff, I won that month, I think...I can't remember the name of the synth, amazing.
I'm most looking forward to the end of the month, when we all freely begin to share and show off our presets to each other, hehehe, because this one could bring some extra fun. If there's fun about it left by then, of course...
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- KVRAF
- 2166 posts since 7 Mar, 2014
This would rather go against the rules whereby each entry must be specifically composed for the challenge in hand ???] Peter:H [ wrote: ... I mean I can go and get me some standard blues, jazz, pop arrangement from the internet and try to get piano and trumpet out of each and every synths.
I do sound design and then thnk about how I might use the sounds in a composition, and then once a framework is in place, see how I can work the sound design to meld the sounds together in a mix ... somtimes it's a pretty generic "instrumental", sometimes it's off the wall generative, and sometimes ambient/cinematic ... done the elecrtonic blips and burps in the late 60's ...
dB
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- KVRist
- 377 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia
Yeah I think the same. It is very nice synth with cool features for a freebie but something is missing in sound. You can do nice stuff with it but it require alot of more work to add "life" to it. Also not sure but wavetable osc in zebralette sounds little "dirty" for me - I mean pure osc without any other stuff enabled in synth.Taron wrote:I'm almost afraid there's virtually no way whatsoever to make Zebralette sound truly alive. It just is a cyborg
OBXD was fun and I think it is one of the best tracks of mine regarding percs - but it ended almost at the end of score listTaron wrote:I think, I missed the OBXD month, but LotS really shocked me for how amazing it is for percs. It automatically sounds full, complex and alive.
. If you have time you can check my entry OBXD March . LOtS doesn't require much work and any post effects to do nice percs. It will sound great even dry which is truly unique. No other synth I tried for now can do that 
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
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- KVRAF
- 2094 posts since 22 Sep, 2016
I think nobody has followed my wavetable/sampling experiment some posts earlier. May be I explain a bit.
First of all: one slot is not a note, it's just a single cycle waveform that is usually repeated over and over again. It's 128 samples per slot what would that mean in terms of sampling frequency? Can you do the math?
You can also interpret it as small part of a longer sample, i.e. you do some sort of control to play each slot exactly once.
What I did:
1.) I used a Sample that says "K Term"
2.) Cut it in halfes, ending with a "K" and a "Term" sample.
3.) For each sample, I cut it into 128 sample pieces...can you use fmpeg program for it?
4.) I loaded the slots of a wavetable with the consecutive cut outs using this simple progi I have mentioned earlier.
5.) Loaded the wavetable into a new patch
6.) Now you only have to use a env with rising attack that controls the slot to be played. This would play slot 1,2,3,4... Imagine you find the right speed of attack and play the right note at the same time. This gives you sort of mini-samples...of 16*128 Samples, i.e. it plays a slot exactly once and all slots in order...not enough for the type of Sampling supported by grown wavetable synths like tone2 icarus, vps avenger, or parawave rapid...but fun for experiments anyways.
This said, I think there's some room for experiments...and I think lokkens Idea to use short delays and probaly gates for some sort of emulating granular synthesis...offers even more room for fun and play, even if it does not get one many points...
First of all: one slot is not a note, it's just a single cycle waveform that is usually repeated over and over again. It's 128 samples per slot what would that mean in terms of sampling frequency? Can you do the math?
You can also interpret it as small part of a longer sample, i.e. you do some sort of control to play each slot exactly once.
What I did:
1.) I used a Sample that says "K Term"
2.) Cut it in halfes, ending with a "K" and a "Term" sample.
3.) For each sample, I cut it into 128 sample pieces...can you use fmpeg program for it?
4.) I loaded the slots of a wavetable with the consecutive cut outs using this simple progi I have mentioned earlier.
5.) Loaded the wavetable into a new patch
6.) Now you only have to use a env with rising attack that controls the slot to be played. This would play slot 1,2,3,4... Imagine you find the right speed of attack and play the right note at the same time. This gives you sort of mini-samples...of 16*128 Samples, i.e. it plays a slot exactly once and all slots in order...not enough for the type of Sampling supported by grown wavetable synths like tone2 icarus, vps avenger, or parawave rapid...but fun for experiments anyways.
This said, I think there's some room for experiments...and I think lokkens Idea to use short delays and probaly gates for some sort of emulating granular synthesis...offers even more room for fun and play, even if it does not get one many points...
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- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
This is but one way of using it. But you can also use it together with key follow to spread the cycles across the keyboard, capturing the characteristics of an instrument in each range of notes. With a piano it is quite exciting, because each note has its own set of complexities even in the very foundation. This way you can try to mimic a single wave cycle for each of the 16 segments across the whole keyboard. This goes for any number of instruments or sound sources, such as choirs or singing voices as well.
Select the WaveForm at the center (WaveWarp at 9.00) and turn Mod all the way to 16.00 selecting KeyFollow.
Now the cells represent roughly the following notes (just for orientation):
F1, B1, E2, A2, C3, E3, A3, C4, E4, A4, C5, E5, A5, C6, E6, A6
This is very rough, but the interval appears to somewhere around 4 half notes...something like that.
The process is a little painful, because you can't keep your settings while you're editing each cell (except cell 9, of course), but it's quite worth it!
After that you'd use FX1 & 2 along with anything else you can throw at it in terms of modulation to get the sound you want. But it's a pretty powerful starting point, I find!
Select the WaveForm at the center (WaveWarp at 9.00) and turn Mod all the way to 16.00 selecting KeyFollow.
Now the cells represent roughly the following notes (just for orientation):
F1, B1, E2, A2, C3, E3, A3, C4, E4, A4, C5, E5, A5, C6, E6, A6
This is very rough, but the interval appears to somewhere around 4 half notes...something like that.
The process is a little painful, because you can't keep your settings while you're editing each cell (except cell 9, of course), but it's quite worth it!
After that you'd use FX1 & 2 along with anything else you can throw at it in terms of modulation to get the sound you want. But it's a pretty powerful starting point, I find!
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eraze the borders eraze the borders https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=278104 - KVRist
- 150 posts since 4 Apr, 2012 from Berlin, Germany
Thank you Taron! Very useful tipp for percussions. Gave me a real boost todayTaron wrote:So, yeah, even now I can't make up my mind about Zebralette. I've had no trouble with hihats or cymbals or shakers. Consider using low octaves to generate more noise type effects with the scrambler and the filter at highpass (to the right) with possibly some phase modulation or even sync and you get a nice array of complex high percussion.
Here's my first little sketch. Zebralette is really awesome in my opinion.
https://soundcloud.com/eraze-the-border ... 01/s-HBnFI
Failure is success in progress.
