One Synth Challenge #109: Fathom Synth by Seaweed Audio (mmGhost wins!)

[ilmai]

ilmai, Hi, sorry you're having the problem of not being able to load Fathom tracks between Windows and Mac.

I can see that would indeed be very frustrating.
Unfortunately I don't think you can do that.
It's the same C++ code, but the builds are completely different in Windows and Mac.
I never imagined someone would need to do that.

Different builds shouldn't be a problem, since this is the only cross-platform plugin I've had the problem with. I don't know the ins and outs of the VST format, but I would imagine it's a matter of different plugin ids or some other metadata that's different between the versions, since Bitwig is most likely looking for a plugin based on that?

But looks like it's not actually problem for me, since my Mac laptop isn't powerful enough to handle Fathom anyway

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

That's great to hear. It's awesome to see a developer so involved and taking so many steps to ensure a good user experience.
I'll try to see if I can come up with some reproducible sequence of steps to show this behavior. If not I will post a patch.

I agree. Looks like this developer really trying so hard. It is almost unbelievable .

Does anybode have problem with ADSR? No matter how I try I always get clicks here and there and specially with very short notes while I try to create some ostinato. This synth doesn't like short note. Thirty-second notes and shorter with quick repetition. It get audible even more with setting note release to logarithmic decay, It almost look like it never reach zero value no matter what decay settings.

I trying to build brass section and it need few adsr modulators here and there.

I also need to confirm - synth have 32 voice polyphony. It is 32 per one oscillator or for whole instrument instance? Also when using unison 8 voices detune does it mean 3 note chord - 24 voices? I get some voice stealing while I try to play another note on same instance with 3 note chord wich should still be 32 voices. I have set max polyphony in signal flow. I'm using lastest Pro (2.8.0) version 64 bit in flstudio.

I am not 100% sure of this but I find that if a note is releaed before it reaches the relaese node ( time wise ) clicks are more common. It sounds to me as if a wave is cut off at a non zero crossing. This seems to happen more frequently if the partials are a low number or the filter is below say 50 hz. That would be logical because a wave with less harmonics would a broader span for non zero crossings. Agan kind of a shot in the dark. Every now and then a spend some time chasing it but have not found a 100% repeatable scenario.

[functionform]

I have noticed that clicks are very easy to cause when the gui is up. After midi is recording and I'm not doing anything in the gui, I can't seem to find any clicks (assuming envelopes are properly configured). This takes a little getting used to when making patches, I think I've learned to ignore them during sound design.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

I have noticed that clicks are very easy to cause when the gui is up. After midi is recording and I'm not doing anything in the gui, I can't seem to find any clicks (assuming envelopes are properly configured). This takes a little getting used to when making patches, I think I've learned to ignore them during sound design.

Hey, thats something I didnt consider. I will throw that into the tests as well.

I will find it one way or another.

Some folks seem to hear it some dont. Cant explain that either. I tought it was me for awhile.

[FathomSynth]

TrojakEW, The ADSR’s and Envelopes have a “Smooth Samples” dial, try moving that up and see if it helps with the clicks.

Fathom has 32 polyphonic voices with up to 8 detune voices per poly voice for a total of 256 detune voices.

The voices are never reduced when you add oscillators, so adding oscillators increases the voices.

However, polyphonic voices are automatically reduced if CPU load goes high, so theoretically you can have 256 voices * oscillators, but in reality it would never let you get up that high. The algorithm is pretty smart so it will only reduce polyphony as much as needed each time a note is hit by stealing the voice from the oldest note.

Scrubbing Monkeys, oscillators are always stopped at the waveform zero crossing even at the end of a ADSR release. Also, sharp edges are handled automatically if the Partials are modulated. But there are some parameters which the anti-clicker does not yet handle. These includes the phaser effect and the distortion page Phase Pressure.

For these cases you have to use the Envelope Smooth Samples dial to get rid of the click.

Functionform, yes, clicking will still happen when you move dials and values change very suddenly, but like you said, it should disappear once you are no longer touching any dials.

That being said, if anyone catches the clicking red handed, send me the patch so I can debug it and add that scenario to the ones which the anti-clicker can handle.

[bryemye]

Is there a way to zoom in on envelopes (specifically ADSR). I can't seem to figure it out from just messing around, and it is useful for when I am making drum sounds and the envelopes are pretty tight.

[Frostline]

Is there a way to zoom in on envelopes (specifically ADSR). I can't seem to figure it out from just messing around, and it is useful for when I am making drum sounds and the envelopes are pretty tight.

Left click and hold an empty spot in the envelope window and move mouse up and down.
It only zooms so far though.
For greater precision change the period dial so each grid point has a smaller value.

[Local Man]

Local Man, Could you post your preset which is crashing in Mac Logic.

Unfortunately it's not just one preset and it's not consistent. It seems that if I make too many moves with Fathom then Logic will crash the next time I try to record.
Anyway, I am attaching a Logic project that has a couple of instances of Fathom in it that was crashing the program repeatedly.

I have some other random observations that may or may not be useful about using Fathom on my setup.
-When I load the Fathom presets I have saved, the sound is correct but none of the modules or modulators are present or accessible in the GUI. All you can see is the waveform and modulation animation on the main window. (I have saved my Fathom presets under Logic's preset architecture and not Fathom's for what that's worth).
-Fathom doesn't appear in the recently used synths list which was added in Logic 10.4. Not a big deal but every other synth I use (3rd party included) does.
-There is a ton of noise and distortion when editing parameters (particularly ADSR nodes). It makes editing less than fun hearing that horrible sound the whole time. It seems like it could be CPU related but from the metering I am seeing it doesn't seem to be.
-Speaking of CPU, the last core/thread spiking issue that Logic is notorious for, seems to be a big issue with this synth. I know Logic has reported to make ground with this issue in recent updates and I have noticed improvements but not with this synth.
Anyway that's all I can think of off the top of my head right now.
Don't get me wrong, I really like this synth. It has a great sound. The workflow is good but could be improved. But these issues are unfortunately particular to my setup.

To be honest though it may be something to do with my hardware (late 2013 iMac) just not liking Sierra and for that matter Logic 10.4.1 (though Fathom is the only plugin that is actually crashing Logic, I am also noticing odd behavior in other ways with this new configuration).
I am getting way fed up and considering rolling back to Yosemite.
Since I upgraded my main audio and project external drive keeps ejecting for no reason, I get this annoying iCloud notification that won't go away (even though I disabled iCloud because I don't use it), the performance of my DAW seems to have suffered a bit, and all kinds of little things just seem to be not working right.
Logic 10.4 is a very cool update but I don't think it is quite worth all this.
Sorry for the off topic rant but I am just a bit frustrated right now.

[FathomSynth]

Local Man, I'm loading your project now into my Logic Pro on Mac OSX Sierra.

I'm having trouble making it crash.

Can you tell me exactly what you did to make it crash.
Like which dials or envelopes you moved.
And which track were you recording when it crashed?

[Local Man]

Local Man, I'm loading your project now into my Logic Pro on Mac OSX Sierra.

I'm having trouble making it crash.

Can you tell me exactly what you did to make it crash.
Like which dials or envelopes you moved and what exactly you recorded.

Am I crazy or did you edit your post? I could of sworn when I first read this it said it crashed for you upon pushing play. Weird.
Anyway, like I mentioned there really isn't a predictable pattern I can pinpoint. That project kept crashing for me at first but now I can open it and get it to play. But let's say I added another instance of Fathom and programmed it a bit, then it would likely crash at some point when I am recording overdubs.
I will list the things I was doing frequently.
-Adding the basic waveform oscillator (or usually 2)
-Connecting those to 1 or 2 resonant low pass filters
-Adding ADSR and velocity control to volume of oscillators and cutoff of filters
-Modulating the waveform and/or pulse width with an LFO
-Modulating the octave tuning with an ADSR
-Maybe adding a reverb module on the filter output
Thats about it. Also though I am of course tweaking the various parameters on those modules (too many of them to list really). Again, it seems after tweaking a few simple things like that, it will soon crash on either playback or recording (or loading a preset on a new instance of Fathom).

[functionform]

Btw check out these great Fathom tutorials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_FGNTqs54w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzIuLk8730w

[TheNeverScene]

Hey, nice vids Functionform! Especially the more on wavetables one. Thank you.

[functionform]

Hey, nice vids Functionform! Especially the more on wavetables one. Thank you.

Don't thank me, thank Scrubbing, who is apparently so humble he didn't post them himself! I found them very helpful.

[FathomSynth]

Fathom 2.9.2 BETA for Win 64 and Mac OSX Sierra 64

http://www.mediafire.com/file/r6oyj4hce ... 2_BETA.zip

Email me if you need the password to the update.

Bugs fixed so far in 2.9.2

Fixed Bug 0098 Signal flow object mode can not be changed in Mac Sierra
Fixed Bug 0099 Detune save default not being loaded for new plugin track
Fixed Bug 0099 LFO ADSR Release phase frequency not modulating
Fixed Bug 0103 Solidtrax Preset button stops working after select a modulation
Fixed Bug 0130 Noise volume does not follow note velocity
Fixed Bug 0132 Mulab CPU goes up after last note if master EQ enabled
Fixed Bug 0133 Reverb sounds different after preset loaded if decay set to zero
Fixed Bug 0134 RSH cycle period is off by one when applied to wave index
Fixed Bug 0135 Added channel pressure as modulator along side after touch
Fixed Bug 0126 Timing is off at note start if modulate LFO Period with Envelope
Fixed Bug 0127 Highlight modulation slat when mouse is over target dial
Fixed Bug 0129 Modulator list should show if each is used or not used
Fixed Bug 0137 Noise volume is zero for oscillator copied with ADSR on noise
Fixed Bug 0138 Envelope is not aligned to song if Period is host automated
Fixed Bug 0139 Improved realism of Reverb at low values of Distance and Decay

Local Man, No you're not going crazy, it crashed for me once when I hit play after loading your project into Logic Pro, but after I edited Fathom I could never get it to crash again.

Try the Mac Beta and tell me if it fixes your problem.
It is the first Mac release actually built in Sierra.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Hey, nice vids Functionform! Especially the more on wavetables one. Thank you.

Don't thank me, thank Scrubbing, who is apparently so humble he didn't post them himself! I found them very helpful.

Hey your welcome guys,

I did post those on the Fathom thread when I uploaded them.
There are a few in there that may shed some light and speed some things up for you. Fathom is very deep.
I hope to up load one this week on wavedraw and biezer. I just now figured out to use biezer correctly and I swear I have read the manual 10 times.
But it is like walking into a candy store......so much sweetness I forget what I came in for.
The manual is very well done and updated as fast as the Synth itself.....freakin amazing!