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Which MIDI learn system do you prefer?

Host MIDI learn system (like Control Link in Studio One, or Remote Control Editor in Cubase)
9
29%
Manufacturer specific MIDI learn for your device (like Automap, DirectLink, VIP, Komplete Kontrol and likes)
3
10%
The MIDI learn system the VST(i) provides
13
42%
I don't use or need MIDI learn at all
6
19%
 
Total votes : 31
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2835 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:37 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

When using generic midi controllers or HW synths (which are the ones I use more to control) Plugin MIDI learn is the best solution, allows to control various instances with a single synth.

But I also like controllers as push or maschine which have their mapping system which uses their software (so it would be DAW centric). This has various advantages one of each is dynamic mapping and o viously getting screens with parameters info.

Solutions that involve a wrapper are terrible for me, they doesn't provide enough controls and make a mess of projects (and don't work with the DAW native plugins).0
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Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
6078 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:16 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

I voted for the second option (automap etc) however this isn’t actually midi learn. There is no midi message being assigned.

I would never use midi learn unless it was a few global controls for a live set that I needed permanently assigned to some hardware controls. But for general plugin control, controllers that use a plugins parameter ID directly are so much better for so many reasons. You get the names showing up on lcd screens to you’re not having to remember where you learned things, you don’t run out of midi cc’s or channels or have to worry about conflicts with built in midi control signals, and hugely important, you get no-directional communication, so adjusting a parameter in screen or changing a patch updates the values on the hardware controls. This is pretty much how every decent system works, not just novation automap, nektar panorama, Maschine, komplete kontrol and akai, but also any controller working with a DAWs own mapping scripts like Ableton push and all the other Ableton scripts, and bitwigs hardware scripts etc. There are other possible advantages as well that aren’t always implemented, such as for example Novation Automaps ability to set the custom ranges and step sizes of parameters. This lets you assign for example a menu of items if it’s exposed as a parameter and be able to scroll through the items, even if the actual parameter has a thousand units and there’s just ten items at the start of the range.

And FYI, about novation automap, with VSTs you can add and remove the automap versions as you want. The regular version will load in a daw if you remove the automap version. You can even add automap versions after having saved a project with regular vsts and they will load automap wrapped. It’s pretty safe. Stay away from audio units and automap though. They won’t load if the automap versions are removed.
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chk071
KVRAF
 
16436 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:29 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

Good points and thanks for the info. I had it in Studio One though that it saw only the Automap version of a few plugins (not all, just on some, strangely). Automap also crashed the one or the other time on me. Bit of a shame that the manufacturers treat their software so stepmotherly most of the time. :?
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
 
22644 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny

Postby thecontrolcentre; Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:33 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

DJ Warmonger wrote: when I actually get to work, I always load everythig into Ableton Instrument Rack so I have exactly same 8 knobs for any sound I use, mapped to Push.
.

Yeah, Instrument Racks with PUSH2 & ReMoteSL here.
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4726 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from New Zealand

Postby EnGee; Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:17 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

chk071 wrote:
EnGee wrote:I might need to use Cubase VST quick controls (which I don't prefer at all!) or possibly just using the mouse and record an automation lane.

Yeah, i didn't like the quick controls either. I mean, just 8 controls, seriously?

It has pages though and you can scroll them by the mouse, but even that is annoying! That's why I'm selling my nektar P4, because I don't need this complexity (also I hate the endless knobs! This is the main reason actually).
There's also the Remote Control Editor, but, i never really fiddled with that one much, as it seemed complicated on first look. Maybe it isn't.

Me too! Even when I had the Blofeld, I didn't bother making a template for it. I didn't feel the need for it really as controlling the Blofeld directly was good enough for me.
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chk071
KVRAF
 
16436 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:35 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

EnGee wrote:also I hate the endless knobs! This is the main reason actually

Lol. :) Welcome to the club... the rotary knobs on my Oxygen 25 worked so nicely. Since i have keyboards with endless encoders (Axiom, Impulse), i really dislike them. Too much twisting needed. Never got used to the acceleration. They jump in value after short time. Really, screw them. Dunno if they use higher quality potis in the more expensive controllers. I guess they do.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
11694 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:46 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

My controller keyboard only has pitch and mod wheels, which are automatically assigned, so no need for Midi learn.
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4726 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from New Zealand

Postby EnGee; Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:40 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

chk071 wrote:
EnGee wrote:also I hate the endless knobs! This is the main reason actually

Lol. :) Welcome to the club... the rotary knobs on my Oxygen 25 worked so nicely. Since i have keyboards with endless encoders (Axiom, Impulse), i really dislike them. Too much twisting needed. Never got used to the acceleration. They jump in value after short time. Really, screw them. Dunno if they use higher quality potis in the more expensive controllers. I guess they do.

There are several options in nektar P4, but none of them rotate the knobs in 'normal' way! It is always with some 'smart' acceleration as you said. I just want to rotate it the same as normal damn it! I want it the 'stupid' way! But there is no way for that and it is damn annoying for me. To be honest, I feel I made a mistake exchanging my nektar lx25+ and my used Blofeld with the new nektar P4! I really liked everything about the nektar lx25+, even I prefer its spongy/plasticky keys over the higher quality and more expensive P4 (which they did excellent job in mappings and functionality, it is just the feel of keys/knobs I didn't like).

fluffy_little_something wrote:My controller keyboard only has pitch and mod wheels, which are automatically assigned, so no need for Midi learn.


The mod wheel is almost 90% of what I use, but some times I need another one or two to be mapped to specific parameters (especially in some complex synths). Some synths they even don't have a mod wheel, like Massive, although I tend to map Macro 1 to mod wheel while the other 7 macros to normal knobs.

Surprisingly, my ideal keyboard/controller is still the Casio PX-5S! It has excellent piano keys (big and heavy weighted like rocks!) and very smooth normal 4 knobs and 6 sliders (in addition of course to the mod /pitch wheels). I can use the sustain pedal as well :)

Edit:
btw, I'm thinking of buying Xbox360 and PS3/PS4 MIDI Control v2 as I thought to use my xbox controller sticks to control some parameters like the morphing in FM8 or Vector stick in Wavestation.
Last edited by EnGee on Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zzz00m
KVRian
 
1124 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Postby zzz00m; Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:43 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

fluffy_little_something wrote:My controller keyboard only has pitch and mod wheels, which are automatically assigned, so no need for Midi learn.


Speaking of pitch and mod wheels, if you have ever explored presets designed by 'Big Tone', there are many where he makes extensive use of those controls. Very expressive sounds, and you may not need many more knobs if these are implemented creatively! :tu:
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Niowiad
KVRist
 
175 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Postby Niowiad; Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:37 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

I personally only use the host midi learn, as I find it to just be the easier and most consistent way.
WasteLand
KVRer
 
12 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Postby WasteLand; Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:32 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

i use mainly automap, which works great, a zero sl mkii and 49sl mkii, many knobs... in combination with a panaroma p1 (fully integrated with reason 10, with many maps made by the reason talk community). the panaroma p1 is use also for cubase, but the software is outdated, but still has some use.

ánd i use the MCU (the old one, the grey one) with remote control of cubase, also full control over every parameter of any vst/vsti. and the channel strip! and the input gain... but not pre-high cut/low cut, etc..

with the panorama p1, i can adjust the tempo of project.

and 2 (3) dedicated controllers; spark creative drum machine for.. spark 2.4 and for maschine 2.7.7... maschine mk3 (in combi with the jam).

to summarize: a combination of implementations, when something doens't work well in automap, i have mcu or panorama p1, but that are exceptions, only a few plugins doesn't work well, very few.

for guitar rig, when playing guitar, i use the fcb-1010 foot-controller.
User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
 
14869 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:18 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

fluffy_little_something wrote:My controller keyboard only has pitch and mod wheels, which are automatically assigned, so no need for Midi learn.

:dog:
This thread about who would have a question about it, assumption being real use of control.
chk071
KVRAF
 
16436 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

I'm giving Ableton Live Lite's MIDI learn system a go right now. As easy as it can get. Makes me wonder even more why so many manufacturers or DAW developers give their users such a damn hard time. It's even easier than Control Link in Studio One, because you can learn all parameters at a time, just tweaking the virtual knob, then tweaking the physical knob, then tweaking another virtual knob etc.
User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
11694 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:45 am Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

jancivil wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:My controller keyboard only has pitch and mod wheels, which are automatically assigned, so no need for Midi learn.

:dog:
This thread about who would have a question about it, assumption being real use of control.


Well, there is a poll option for people like me... :wink:
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4726 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from New Zealand

Postby EnGee; Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:24 pm Re: MIDI keyboards - Which MIDI learn system do you use/prefer?

I have to correct myself that FM8 has midi learn. It's just not right click, but an icon of midi up right there :dog:

Although the Xbox utility worked but I couldn't find a successful way to control the morphing in FM8 as I imagined. I need to look at their videos and play with the parameters first before asking their support, which seems friendly :)
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