KVR Audio

x_bruce · Post by **x_bruce** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:35 am

I have this really nice "blown" sounding guitar that now sounds closer to a Pan Flute than guitar.

However (and keep in mind, I've been using Cakewalk programs since Cakewalk Pro for DOS 2.0) I can't get Sonar 4 or 3 to render to audio without all kinds of problems.

I have this nice track that uses
2 tracks of Prosonus - Prepared Piano
1 track of John Cage Prepared Piano, both thru bigfishAudio and played in Kontakt
2 tracks of percussion in EASTWEST Silver Orchestra
1 Rephrase sample that sounds more like what Physical Modeling should sound like

But I have to get Sonar working, I can't even copy a single channel to audio without sound trails dying or clipping (trails are on in the software). I have no idea what can be the problem. It's been a long time, since Cubase VST 5.1 since I've been perplexed like this. Kind of bodes not well for the Sonar review I'm working on.

As for my outburst (tm) regarding the other thread, I should know better but some things are self evident. You always hear of expensive purchase items being justified but the free synths here are better than anything I've heard! Even the freeware on my disc and on discs I send out to cheap-ass artists I used to know when I co-started Artistlaunch.com, an OMD I brought 800+ artists to by listening and inviting them. We had 8800 when I left, not sure how it is there now. I still keep some of my stuff there.

The people I used to work with (so to speak) and the musically oriented around where I live know my tirades against all hardware studios already, I wondere what they'd say if I mentioned PolyIBlit was better than those copies of VirSyn TERA I convinced them to buy.

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:34 am

I must say that I´m disappointed by the sound quality of Rephrase. It's not "sampler like quality". Even when played at the samples original pitches the samples sound tinny. Not to speak of the unnatural sound when transposed within a +- 1 octave range.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:28 pm

AndreasE wrote:I must say that I´m disappointed by the sound quality of Rephrase. It's not "sampler like quality". Even when played at the samples original pitches the samples sound tinny. Not to speak of the unnatural sound when transposed within a +- 1 octave range.

I've noticed that too. It makes everything sound a bit 'AM radio'. Part of the problem is that it forces samples to be mono. It also forces resynth windowing resolution, which is nice for simplicity's sake, but it might be at the expense of fidelity.

The stretch envelope really is fantastic though.

BC · Post by BC » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:22 pm

I tried the demo thinking it would be fun to mangle some solo mono vocal tracks.

I was not at all impressed with the results.

I was hoping for a tool that would let me make subtle pitch and timing adjustments transparently. It did the first part but not the latter.

Granted - I only spent about 20 minutes mucking with it but I closed the program and deleted it.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:43 pm

HI

I dont understand the comments about quality - your starting point is the source material which is the audio/wav file that you load into the application - any results you get from this point will only be as good as the original source, from here, like any treatment things are going to change, often for the worse - if your expectations are too great.

This application costs £100 - you might need to spend £300+ to get a noticeable improvement?

I have spent a lot of time putting vocals through Rephrase and subtle changes don't hinder quality of result IMO.

Major tweaking might alter the quality but then again it is a trade off and even here exactly what is or can 'we' expect when dropping a sound source an octave, adding a formant, reverb & filter?

I only wish there was or will be a real time version thast acts as a vst - that will make my day!

Flipper.

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:15 pm

original flipper wrote:I dont understand the comments about quality - your starting point is the source material which is the audio/wav file that you load into the application - any results you get from this point will only be as good as the original source

I tested some clean samples and they sounded unnatural/tinny even without any mangling in Rephrase. Even a freeware sampler sounds better when playing the original sample.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:25 pm

HI

Well if that is your experience then this program aint for you, is it.

I did the same when I demoed it prior to investing my £100 in it and what a paradox of opinion, I found the quality perfectly acceptable

.

Anyway potential buyers can download the demo and hear for themselves if they think the quality of repoduction is up to their demands.

Flipper.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:39 pm

I find the quality acceptable as well, although I do hear the deterioration. Bear in mind, this isn't just a sampler, it's doing resynthesis, so it only makes sense that some fidelity will be lost.

But if I wanted straightforward sample playback, or even precision time/pitch editing for mixing, I don't think I'd get this. As a well-articulated pseudo-synth instrument though, this is very good.

Still, I'm disappointed that envelope loop points are missing. A variety of playback modes would be appreciated.

x_bruce · Post by **x_bruce** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:08 am

There is a update being worked on, I hope I didn't let anything out of the bag before it's time. Please don't bother the dev, he's trying hard to make the sample at exact quality, so that folks like AndreasE will find it more to their tastes.

I like and intend on using the current version and will revert to it over the version that possibly makes the sound 110%.

Don't know when the beta will start but this is one I'm very conerned about.

AndreasE, what is it you expected from Rephrase if you don't mind me asking? I seem to like it for different reasons than it was designed for, this wouldn't be the first time a product was made to do one and became famous for whole genres. That instrument, the TB303.

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:45 pm

x_bruce wrote:Please don't bother the dev, he's trying hard to make the sample at exact quality, so that folks like AndreasE will find it more to their tastes.

AndreasE, what is it you expected from Rephrase if you don't mind me asking?

Hi x_bruce,

one of my expectations were that I can pitch-shift a sample to, let´s say, +-1 octave in a good and authentic sound quality, like it´s stated in the specs of Rephrase: "Pitch changes in Rephrase use formant preservation, meaning phrases sound authentic up and down the scale... Pitch shifting with formant preservation, for no chipmunk effects". And exactly in that point it fails, IMO.

But for sure, Rephrase can do some other very interesting things. And the developer told me that he will improve the sound quality. So I´m looking forward for the next version.

x_bruce · Post by **x_bruce** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:38 pm

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the 1.2 update. Still not sure but if the quality is anything like the overal concept I'm sure it'll work more efficiently for those of you interesteted in it's core use.

If allowed I'll keep both versions on. I really like the current version but I'm using it like a modeler, changing pitches in the attack portion of the sound and finding ways of drifting pitches in random but realistic sounding ways. It's especially good for flute or blown sounds as no one has the pitch used by most modelers I've heard and samples I tried.

Leapfrog Audio, Rephrase