KVR Audio

soma · Post by **soma** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:26 pm

Currently the enveloping is doing the smoothing but it also imposes some unwanted spectral limiting (most noticable on the high end). You can hear the full spectrum if you use the envelope "None", but then there is no smoothing and you get all the DC offset noise from too. I think the interpolation could be as simple as adding a good DC offset engine inbetween the sample player and the grain looper. Currently a low pass filter is sitting there (discretely titled "Container") and helping but not really doing the trick (and removing a little highend too).

I'll be more than happy to answer questions here if any come up.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:14 pm

Would be cool.. but isn't graintable synthesis proprietary to Propellerhead? That's why they say, anyway, when they describe it and Malstrom.

soma · Post by **soma** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:07 pm

Yeah well, I'm not using a real table of wavelength points. That's how you are able to use any .wav file. The points are each sample in the file. That's also why the sound is so noisy right now

but I hope we can solve that with some interpolation, or dual window crossfading. If only the sample playback loop had HAMM windowing I think it would work.

soma · Post by **soma** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:01 pm

My next approach is to do wavelet analysis when loading a file to find all the zero crossings and only use those as loop points. I'm storing these points into an array. I could use some help here as I'm not so good with the omnistepper which I'm using to increment the array.

soma · Post by **soma** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:59 pm

I got a wavelet version of the oscillator going but it is a bit too mechanical sounding...
Trigger a key on hold and press the "travel by wavelet button" to hear it cycle through the wave one positive zero crossing at a time.
You have the option of choosing either a pitch lenght wavegrain or a 0 to 0 crossing grain.
(the pitch lenght is 0 crossing to pitch frequency length, the true wavelet setting is 0 to 0 crossing length.) What it really needs is a dual windowed grain crossfade I think.
Here is a definition of wavelet synthesis

What is wavelet synthesis?
Wavelet synthesis is very closely related to granular synthesis except that it is more strict in its definition and construction. A granular synthesis grain can be set at any length arbitrarily, whereas a wavelet derives its “grain” length as determined by the pitch of the contents, using the wavelet transform. The wavelet is designed to start and end at 0 phase. Wavelet synthesis can be used for better pitch shifting and reproduction than granular synthesis, but it requires so much analysis that it is much slower to work with in a real-time environment.

http://www.granularsynthesis.live.com.au/what.html

My analysis engine is not slow at all.. infact it is real time plus one wave length.
Here is the test file:

http://home.comcast.net/~soma720/wavelet.se1

(the fix button is for DC offset shouldn't be doing anythign here) Oh yeah I got rid of the array too.

soma · Post by **soma** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:03 pm

Here is another case study (simlpified) this one uses the sample player to control the travel speed and the grain looper to loop a pitch lengthed grain. The grain can be pitched up for formants.
http://home.comcast.net/~soma720/grain_in.se1

[ xerocreep ] · Post by **[ xerocreep ]** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:09 pm

Soma you seem to be cranking out some intersting ideas. I can't wait to play with these a bit this weekend. Are there any odd sep files any of us would need to open these up?

I ask so I can search for them before i have to go home to my dial up rather than here at work with the T1

keep on with the cool ideas

soma · Post by **soma** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:51 am

I think they are all from DH's site except in the last one I used ezmath from the "more modules" page of teh synthedit site (sorry i forget the author).
The meat and patotoes are the DH_waveplayer 2+ and DH_Gainualtor (or something like that) oh and subcontrol packs. I'm using the second to lastest synthedit version (sorry not in front of me this weekend).

soma · Post by **soma** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:35 pm

I think I'm going to go back to the first Idea or the wavelet idea but insert a phase vocoder (spectral monkeage) after teh sample player with a small amount of spectral smearing to smooth out the clicks and pops. Should sound nice to have that before teh envelope and filters...

soma · Post by **soma** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:57 am

This is phase vocoding is working like a charm! Only it's crashing SE in certain configurations...

More news later. I'd like to do my own phasevocoding macro with some fft mod's but I haven't found any. Anyone know Chris Kerry or how to evaluate his mods?

soma · Post by **soma** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:35 pm

CK send me a list of all his modules and I didn't see any FIR ones... What'you'talk'n'bout xerocreep?

ezeeboogie · Post by **ezeeboogie** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:55 pm

Ck has only just released the FIR modules. They are not part of the standard packs 1+2 they are part of a new pack he is releasing as pack 3. I am a registered user and I was sent the packs automatically.

I really think you should get the CK modules soma, I think you would love them...

soma · Post by **soma** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:11 pm

Got the CK mod's... Really so m any that I can't imagine how to learn what all these do...

On a seperate note, I am now experimenting with adding an envelope to each loop from teh wave player but I'm having problems, whenever the loop is smaller than about 574 ms I get no gate. Would someone be kind enough to take a look at this case study?

http://home.comcast.net/~soma720/loop_env_stable.se1

soma · Post by **soma** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:27 pm

Ok Now I'm using DH's beta Sample snatcher II. It has crossfading loops and alternating loops. I added a Serial | Parallel filter with cross mixing between HP BP and LP. The snatcher also has wavelet detection but unless your sample is a uniform pitch it won't sound good if you switch it on. There are a couple of problems: The EZmath module is taking up 9% of my computer's resources to calulate log(U)/log(2). the other is some times the loop poiints get lost. You can work around this by moving teh formant slider (U). I think this is also related to the ezmath mod. Anyone know a better calculator module?
Here's the case study.
I'd say closer to prototype really.

http://home.comcast.net/~soma720/grain._3ssii.se1

saulc12 · Post by **saulc12** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:36 pm

soma wrote:I have one going that's good enough for the song I needed it but it could be improved if anyone else is looking for a malstorm type synth. Perhaps someone wants to make a skin?

Any feature requests? Right now it's pretty noisy in most cases but can be smooth if you know what you're doing and do't try anything too extream.

Infact I'll post the current .se1 when I get a chance.

This sounds like a very good idea and I would be interested in maybe helping with the skin if you like (you can see my skins on the simple media synths).

Any interest in a SE graintable synth?