KVR Audio

Elenesski · Post by **Elenesski** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:33 pm

I am finding that due to the complex nature of the sounds that synths play these days, that as I layer sounds from one synth on top of another, the sounds mix together causing a muddying of the sound. I know why this happens, the transients become too close too each other creating peaks that essentially make it impossible to differentiate the distinct sounds; they instead merge creating almost an entirely new sound.

One idea I had was a tool that showed me a spectrum before and after a sound source was added so that I can visually see where the transients overlap; with various methods to see the differences. This way I could decide if a particular note should be removed or have it's pitch changed slightly to avoid the overlap.

Does that tool exist or are there others I should consider, to help me detect when this begins to happen so that I can correct it? (I use Live 9 Suite)

El

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:45 pm

Why not insert Live's own spectrum analyser after each synth and at the end of the channel? Or do you want it in one graph? Blue Cat has a multi channel analyser, never used it though.

Btw, when using Live, it's always a good idea to look at M4L devices that may cover your needs. The other day I was looking for an oscilloscope, found only pay ware (for Mac) until I found a M4L device that did exactly what I wanted.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:47 pm

Ha! Found this one, neat M4l device that does exactly what you want (I think), $5 though. https://gumroad.com/l/s8

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Could Voxengo SPAN Pro do the job? Or the Meldaproduction Multi-Analyzer?

Elenesski · Post by **Elenesski** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:18 pm

BDeep wrote:Ha! Found this one, neat M4l device that does exactly what you want (I think), $5 though. https://gumroad.com/l/s8

This looks very interesting. I'll experiment with it for a while and see if it can help me out. It looks very promising.

Thanks
El

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:30 pm

Just for kicks: http://dmgaudio.com/products_dualism.php
I realise it's way over the top, but that most likely has every analyser need you'll ever have, covered.

lachrimae · Post by **lachrimae** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:51 pm

The absolute best tool for this IMO is Izotope's spectrogram that comes with Insight. But... it's far too expensive in my opinion.

I use MMultiAnalyzer to compare frequencies of different tracks but, as mentioned above, there are other very good tools such as Voxengo SPAN Plus.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:50 pm

The Sonogram in MAnalyzer is hard to give up once you get used to it.

http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/ ... =MAnalyzer

Here, you can see a low end sine wave sweeping up in pitch - perfect visualisation. And here the pinky more intense bits are what I have set it to show when there is a greater intensity of frequencies in that region, meaning the bass is seriously overloaded. You can set it to whatever makes sense for you though.

I'd seriously consider getting the Free Effects bundle upgrade - it's just 20 quid at the moment in the sale, and you get 20 odd workhorse effects. MAnalyzer is included in that upgrade. You can use it in the free bundle but you can't change colours to your liking and logic.

http://www.meldaproduction.com/download ... ectsBundle

Span is fine and I use it all the time, but nothing replaces a Sonogram once you get your head around it. Sometimes you want a spectrum analyser, sometimes you want something more visual. There are things you can do with a Sonogram that you just can NOT do with a spectrum analyser. MAnalyzer has both. At the same time if you like.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:58 pm

Elenesski wrote: One idea I had was a tool that showed me a spectrum before and after a sound source was added so that I can visually see where the transients overlap; with various methods to see the differences. This way I could decide if a particular note should be removed or have it's pitch changed slightly to avoid the overlap.

To answer your question, using the Sonogram that I just showed you and how I have it set up, you would look for the brighter pink bits. These would indicate TOO MUCH going on in that frequency domain. That might just be because you are overloading it with a single instance of something, or it could be that there is a clash between two instruments as in your case. You would watch the Sonogram in real time and bring the suspected instruments in and out and you would see perfectly what frequency is being transmitted.

Once you determined the clashing instruments and frequency domain, you would then, as you have suggested take one of the notes up or down and re-check. Now you should see that that domain is not overloaded and the new note will light up a different area of the Sonogram, this time being all blue and the bright pink bits gone. You now have a much more balanced mix. Try doing that with a Spectrum Analyzer.

I maybe didn't explain that well, but it is definitely possible once you get your head around it.

Elenesski · Post by **Elenesski** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:25 am

Bit of an update. I bought the Melda free pack and by pure accident discovered linear phase equalization which solves my mud problem.

I'm currently investigating the right plugin combinations from Melda for linear phase equalization; I'm also considering FabFilter Pro-Q; or if any of my other plugins have this ability, such as in Ozone 5 (which I already own). It implies that it does, but I cannot find it. Anybody know?

Looking for a Analyzer plugin to assist in Sound Design