Vintage Brass Lead ala Toto / Vangelis / Herbie Hancock

[Sound Author]

I've become very interested in a lot of the old brass presets for legendary synths like the Yamaha CS-80 and the Juno-106. I've made a few "Old-School" (gawd I hate that term) brass presets for Ichiro Toda's Synth1, which sound pretty close ... but I was wondering if anyone would like to drop some knowledge concerning the fine points of all things considered "brass" when it comes to that retro-80's sound, very similar to what Thiago Pinheiro has going on here in the opening of this demo for Applied Acoustics Ultra Analogue...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n58Ifyioysw#t=37

Of course, we've all heard "that sound" smeared all over the Blade Runner soundtrack, and a more detuned version ala Toto's Africa ... but I'm more interested in the minimal lead sound that Vangelis often reaches for, and I believe Herbie Hancock also used this sound here and there.

I understand this usually involves two saw waveforms, with the pitch of one saw ever so slightly modulated by an LFO. Clearly, there's an envelope on what sounds like a 24dB lowpass filter with the cutoff turned down to almost 25%, plus a considerable amount of resonance and saturation ... and of course, nearly 100% keytracking. I also hear a bit of portamento, so mono/legato is probably a good idea.

I think the trick is getting the envelopes right. The amplitude envelope seems to have a quick attack, whereas the filter envelope has a longer attack, I think somewhere around 35%. Note velocity is a concern. I've always enjoyed the sound of note velocity attenuating the filter frequency cutoff, but I'm just not sure ...

^See, this is what I'm talking about. I'm unfamiliar with the old hardware synths. I've never owned one. Did the instruments available between 1984-86 even have velocity and keytracking on the filters? I'd like to get the closest sound possible, and I'd like to work with only the parameters that were available at that time when this sound was most popular.

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Chris-S]

CS-80 didn't have 24dB lowpass, so maybe try 12 dB.

For Vangelis' sound modulate the filter cutoff with wheel or pedal and use tons of reverb.

Did the instruments available between 1984-86 even have velocity and keytracking on the filters?

That was the DX7 aera. Analogue was dead that time.

[nick b]

You should try UHE-Diva or Korg-M1 they have some pretty cool old brass patches

[himalaya]

similar to what Thiago Pinheiro has going on here in the opening of this demo for Applied Acoustics Ultra Analogue...

First thing, there is no brass sound at the beginning of that demo. Pads, effects, and a mellow lead sound, but no brass. This is important, since you need to be able to recognise what a synth brass sound is, before you can make one.

A basic synth brass can be made with:

Filter cutoff + Filter envelope amount + Filter attack envelope stage + Filter decay envelope stage.

These are the basic parameters you need to focus on.

From there, look at:
- the filter type, 12dB or 24 dB LPF.
- resonance. A little bit can add the necessary 'bite'.
- experiment with the oscillator detune amount (very important for some brass sounds).
- modulate the pitch with an envelope for a more realistic brass timbre on the attack stage of the sound.
- See if two sawtooth waves will give you the sound you need, or whether it's a PWM wave mixed with a saw, or indeed, another PWM wave.
- set each osc to different octave ranges and see if this gives you the right sound.
- set a random mod source (if your synth can do it) to panning so that each time you press the note the patch is played in different stereo position. This is nice if reverb and delay is used.