KVR Audio

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:25 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl9isbElkVk
Hi everybody,
I'm trying to design my own kick drum parts by using Sonic Academy's Kick synth because it has fast pitch envelope. But i'm trying to design top click part also by muting sonic academy's click section.It's pitch envelope can produce high pitched clicks but when it comes to sound ,it's doesn't sound pleasant to ears.Can anybody help me to create those clicky but somehow soft part at the same time ?I tried to soften them with layering hihats,etc,but then it becomes a different kind of transient. John Christian shows those parts at 0:48 to 1:00 in the video.I'm talking about to create first two parts of that kick, especially the knock part .Vengeance Electroshock 2 sample pack has that kind of sharp but warm/woody sounding kick drums.How do sound designers soften up those kick drum transients? Bitcrushing or any advance technique etc ?
I have been working on this for a very long time but i couldnt get it. I will be very happy if anyone can help me. I've attached the link above
Thanks...

Ari-S · Post by **Ari-S** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:42 pm

What do you actually mean with "soft"? It may be easier to explain what you could do better if we can get an impression of how your home-crafted kick sounds like. How about uploading it? (on SoundCloud for instance, if you don't want people to download it)

My way of creating kick drums (including top kicks) is basically just trail & error, especially when making the actual top kick. Usually I make the top kick in a separate project. Then I create the sub-layer (bottem kick), and then layer it with the top kick.
But when I'm actually making the top kick, I always try to work in different ways, like using different samples, processing, other techniques...

Sometimes I layer many different sounds that have short high-end transients (impulses) to get a completely different sounding transient, that I'll be using as the clicky part for my top kick and layer it with other short sounds that contain more information in the mid range (like different types of percs, acoustic bass drums, etc.).

And sometimes I'll just start with a very basic (clean) 808 kick drum and start processing the shit out of it. Sometimes I'm lucky and the whole kick drum will end up sounding great, but most of the times the low end will get messed up, so I just use the top kick from it.

Either way, don't limit yourself when you're trying to make your own samples. Sonic Academy's KICK is great for layering (because that's basically what it does), but it isn't that great when trying to actually 'make' your own kick drums, including your own click/top kick samples. If you want to make some decent kick drums, just try out the craziest things and see what you'll end up with. You just have to keep adding, changing and tweaking stuff until you're satisfied with the result.

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Thanks for the reply. I'm actually trying to synthesize the top part of the kick drum. The problem is , soft synths can produce clicky attack sounds but they're not pleasing to ears. Sounds very digital. I think they layer a few milliseconds of a clap or snare hat combo to mask that annoying digital sound. If you listen Vengeance Electro Shock 2 (088) you can clearly hear what i mean. It has sharp attack that cuts through the mix but it's not sounding digital.It's thick and warm sounding. I uploaded the preset to zippyshare , you can check it if you want. But nothing special to it. http://www17.zippyshare.com/v/vk1feOIN/file.html

Ari-S · Post by **Ari-S** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:50 pm

Gnasik wrote:Thanks for the reply. I'm actually trying to synthesize the top part of the kick drum. The problem is , soft synths can produce clicky attack sounds but they're not pleasing to ears. Sounds very digital. I think they layer a few milliseconds of a clap or snare hat combo to mask that annoying digital sound. If you listen Vengeance Electro Shock 2 (088) you can clearly hear what i mean. It has sharp attack that cuts through the mix but it's not sounding digital.It's thick and warm sounding. I uploaded the preset to zippyshare , you can check it if you want. But nothing special to it. http://www17.zippyshare.com/v/vk1feOIN/file.html

The kick that you've created doesn't sound particularity bad. Actually, there are no good or bad kick drums. It all depends on how you use them. Don Diablo uses a lot of kick drums that sound very similar to the one that you sent me (you can hear it in tracks like 'Chain Reaction' or 'Generations' or his remix for 'Don't' by Ed Sheeran). The high end of his kicks are also really sharp and clicky, just like yours, but they don't really sound unpleasant, because they fit within the mix. What I've also noticed on your kick drum is that there is still a lot of high end information at 18 kHz and above. Maybe it's an idea to remove those high frequenties (18 kHz and above), because those frequenties may cause the top kick to sound unpleasant.

But did you also read the rest of my post? I gave you some tips on how to create different sounds for your top kicks. Like I said before, it's all about trial & error; just adding and changing random stuff until you're satisfied with your result.

And that VES2 Bassdrum 088 sample that you're talking about is indeed a pretty good kick drum. It is originally created by Axwell and it was heard for the first time in Swedish House Mafia - 'One' feat. Pharrell Williams. I once read in an interview that he layered a top kick (created by combining the top end from a modified 808 kick with the attack from a compressed acoustic bass drum) with a bottom kick (the low end of another modified and processed 808 kick). It has already been know that 'Vengeance Sound' uses a lot of sampled drums from existing tracks in their sample packs, so no doubt that they did the same for for VES2 Bassdrum 088. Also VES2 Bassdrum 068 is known to be sampled from 'Miami to Ibiza' (also by the SHM), but is actually in a terrible state due to bad quality and terrible sampling results.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:22 pm

Try to do fade in or cut few initial milliseconds, also sweep with EQ to hear where that problem is at, I think around 1khz, but try and see what works best for you

You got some good advice's from Ari-S, try multi band distortion and also comb filtering

Oh yeah, try 707 or Linn kick sample as starting point just for fun, there's some freebies flying around, it will do you well

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Thanks for tips guys! I will try

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:13 am

Gnasik wrote:Thanks for tips guys! I will try

Any luck?

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:34 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Gnasik wrote:Thanks for tips guys! I will try
Any luck?

Not yet man..

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:36 am

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:49 am

Passing Bye wrote:

I've talked with John a few hours ago and pasted it below. Maybe it helps someone and finds the way with it.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:20 am

Okay, just saw what you posted, he is basically saying how to make a kick/how kicks are actually made

Try to set lower pitch or mess with amp envelopes attack or zoom in and cut first half cycle and do fade in, than go like that until you get something smoother or engage LPF and stop when it's smoother

But keep in mind majority just use samples and sample what they like, it's one big circle of it and you can't barely find few of them who know how to actually get it right and dirty without borrowing someone else's labor in that process, that's the thing, Vengeance is sampling from records and than that same stuff is re-used again and again and everyone is at it, sampling each others and so on

My sincere advice is don't go mental over it, you will develop obsession that will cause less musical outcome and more nervous breakdowns, so just get with the program and do the easy thing and when you have time for messing, mess with it, but focus on making music, instead of kicks

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:44 am

Passing Bye wrote:Okay, just saw what you posted, he is basically saying how to make a kick/how kicks are actually made

Try to set lower pitch or mess with amp envelopes attack or zoom in and cut first half cycle and do fade in, than go like that until you get something smoother or engage LPF and stop when it's smoother

But keep in mind majority just use samples and sample what they like, it's one big circle of it and you can't barely find few of them who know how to actually get it right and dirty without borrowing someone else's labor in that process, that's the thing, Vengeance is sampling from records and than that same stuff is re-used again and again and everyone is at it, sampling each others and so on

Thanks, I was always trying to layer three kicks. One with clean sharp top end, one with a punchy mid, and the low sub. What i found , there is an another layer , high mid texture percussion kind of sound. And i was also trying to perfectly match the phases of all sounds. Because if you analyse pro's kicks their wave forms are perfect. No phase cancellations or etc. But i've never succeed with ableton's audio stretching tools.I tried different sampler and now it's locking better. And also the tone and color of the selected sounds are imported i think. And last thing , i use krk vxt8 with akg mk2 headphones, designing sounds with headphones also belies the ears!

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:53 am

You know for this, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs94kiOlR3c

Gnasik · Post by **Gnasik** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:01 am

Yeah from Quantize Courses, awesome tool. It's a little bit limited. Actually i took classes from Quantize Courses. Great place to learn, very friendly tutor and in depth education.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:11 am

He approached me for same, but I couldn't get past Live and what other genre I could focus on, so lost interest and went my way, but have sense it's good place to learn something, it's pricey, but level of dedication is excellent for the same

Designing Individual Kick Drum Parts