Your next guitar?

[Hink]

If you didn't have a Fender or a Gibson you were not walking up on that stage. It didn't matter how much money you paid for your guitar or how good you were are thought you were.

that is pathetic...not just the so called story but your recounting of it..what a crock it is all the way around...you know what I would do if I walked into any place and they judged me on m gear...I would walk right out the door..no truly respectable place around here was like that...neither would any band worth my time be like that..I do not let other people define me or my playing. Like your bashing me for saying I was happy I started with a cheap guitar and you had to try and knock me down saying how you learned such many wonderful lessons by saving of that guitar and my way was wrong and how you learned how to be so fiscally responsible and all (but I cant help notice how often you tell us how broke you are).

Now you want me to believe that whole story? Really? Dude stop telling us great you were, stop telling us how great your gear was, stop telling us how much you know and for gawd's sake pick-up your guitar because you love it...not because you have something to prove. ANYONE WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH ABOVE QUOTE HAS SOMETHING TO PROVE...if fools dont like it why bother with fools?

Seriously, if someone were to tell me at 54 years old I would still be hearing JR High crap like you just posted I would thought them to be fools...I guess this is why I have no time for musicians...I just want to play and do not care what the hell anyone else thinks about my playing, my gear, my looks or anything else...it's amazing how much crap that removes from my life and allows me to enjoy MY music...because that's all it's about

[Uncle E]

I honestly was unimpressed with the original gold lace sensors but those who were paying me were rather impressed.

I feel the same way about Gold Lace Sensors. I do understand what other people are hearing, though, because the bell-like chime that most strat players love about real single coils can sound like nails on a chalkboard when put through a high gain amp in a live setting. The great thing about Gold Lace Sensors, Dimarzio HS-3's, and other similar pickups is they don't get harsh like a real single coil can and they don't get muddy like a traditional humbucker can.

I'm looking forward to those new Fishman pickups. They'll have character switches to allow them to sound like traditional single coils or Gold Lace Sensors.

[Uncle E]

...not just the so called story but your recounting of it..

Stop all the sugar coating and say what you really mean!

Like your bashing me for saying I was happy I started with a cheap guitar and you had to try and knock me down saying how you learned such many wonderful lessons by saving of that guitar and my way was wrong and how you learned how to be so fiscally responsible and all

I started with cheap guitars, I think my first 3-4 guitars were all around $100-200 each. What's funny is that was 26 years ago and a $100-200 guitar these days is probably a lot better than what I was playing back then. Who says we've got inflation?

[tapper mike]

It's the truth whether you accept it or not.

When A lister blues bands pull blues jam shows they act like they've been shit on for hosting one. Fortunately I was never in an A list band. It's a tough world, Detroit is a tough place. No one cares how nice you are. Gotta pay your dues if you want to play the blues...it aint a joke. When you walk onto someone else's stage you should be up to playing with them on thier level or pretty damn close. Everyone in that audience is staring at your hands. Everyone is there for the blues and everyone thinks that they are experts in the blues. There is someone before you and usually there are two or three or more after you. All wanting to take thier shot at the stage. They've all worked thier arses off getting thier licks down and memorizing songs. This is not the time or place for just hoping you can wing it or expecting the band to follow you.

Yes with my band Hit and Run we were never Dick swinging prema donna's like a lot of the Detroit area. We never switch hit the act list. It was always first sign first play. Everyone got thier six (songs) if we had enough time in the night. We didn't judge people by the brand of guitar they had. If they could play the blues they could play with us. We'd often stave off the crowd's after a bad performance. And sometimes that would be rough. But through that we earned the respect of the greater community. We couldn't afford to be assholes. I'm 5'6" 110 Willie was 5'3" 140 Don and Ed were a little larger but we lived and worked in Hamtramck. It wasn't uncommon to see the local jammers at the gas station or party store or supermarket or a lot of places where...In hamtown just looking at someone wrong can lead to an ass kicking.

If you want to sit on your couch and play your guitar and imagine yourself playing in front of an audience or a camera that's one thing. If you want to play real blues like a real blues man on a real blues stage with a real blues audience. Expect to practice your ass off. Expect that everyone will be staring at your hands in the crowd and most will think they can play better then you and want you off the stage so they have thier chance at the limelight. People don't go to blues bars to drink. People don't go to blues bars to listen to heavy metal or rock or jazz or country or experimental music. They go for the blues because they love the blues and they expect quality blues to be performed.

[Hink]

...not just the so called story but your recounting of it..

Stop all the sugar coating and say what you really mean!

Like your bashing me for saying I was happy I started with a cheap guitar and you had to try and knock me down saying how you learned such many wonderful lessons by saving of that guitar and my way was wrong and how you learned how to be so fiscally responsible and all

I started with cheap guitars, I think my first 3-4 guitars were all around $100-200 each. What's funny is that was 26 years ago and a $100-200 guitar these days is probably a lot better than what I was playing back then. Who says we've got inflation?

well to the first point, my point is simple...why would anyone care to be part of any group of snobs that would not let you on the stage if you didn't own a Gibson or a Fender...GOOD, I DONT WANT TO BE ON YOUR STAGE would be my feeling about it. Let me tell yah, I think people over sell themselves and it bites them in the ass, in this case someone stands up there with "all the right gear" and their gear could be over selling their talents. OTOH a dude walks in with a no name guitar/amp and blows the room away IME often the second guy doesn't have to play as hard to impress people as the guy whose gear is saying "this is how damn good I am"...my rant is simple, I have a friend who has a 20 year old stepson who plays guitar...I hear that crap from him and see him talking shit on FB. I did it then, I suspect you did, it's really fairly common...Tapper Mike is closer to my age and that might have been a cool story 20 years ago but now it's kinda old

Point two, of course you started with cheap guitars, most people do and yeah I agree much better quality today. My first guitar was an Alamo El Dorado, thing was junk...maybe...they're worth a lot now I said maybe because I wish I could play one now, I know the action was bad but I dont know it was bad before I got it home. In fact it's most likely what screwed up that guitar was me being me and having to take everything apart but I learned a lot from that guitar....I have bought my daughter two guitars (one a an Ibanez bass) neither expensive because I dont know if she's going to stick with it and in fact all she does is pose with the gear. That's how it goes, to 90% of the people it's common sense, I wouldn't give a 16 year kid the keys a new Corvette...but for others, well let's just say I thought by 54 I would be past such JR High talk.

I wont ever be a better guitar player because of my gear...I better my gear to compliment my personal taste (and if you dont like my taste you dont have to)

[Hink]

It's the truth whether you accept it or not.

When A lister blues bands pull blues jam shows they act like they've been shit on for hosting one. Fortunately I was never in an A list band. It's a tough world, Detroit is a tough place. No one cares how nice you are. Gotta pay your dues if you want to play the blues...it aint a joke. When you walk onto someone else's stage you should be up to playing with them on thier level or pretty damn close. Everyone in that audience is staring at your hands. Everyone is there for the blues and everyone thinks that they are experts in the blues. There is someone before you and usually there are two or three or more after you. All wanting to take thier shot at the stage. They've all worked thier arses off getting thier licks down and memorizing songs. This is not the time or place for just hoping you can wing it or expecting the band to follow you.

Yes with my band Hit and Run we were never Dick swinging prema donna's like a lot of the Detroit area. We never switch hit the act list. It was always first sign first play. Everyone got thier six (songs) if we had enough time in the night. We didn't judge people by the brand of guitar they had. If they could play the blues they could play with us. We'd often stave off the crowd's after a bad performance. And sometimes that would be rough. But through that we earned the respect of the greater community. We couldn't afford to be assholes. I'm 5'6" 110 Willie was 5'3" 140 Don and Ed were a little larger but we lived and worked in Hamtramck. It wasn't uncommon to see the local jammers at the gas station or party store or supermarket or a lot of places where...In hamtown just looking at someone wrong can lead to an ass kicking.

If you want to sit on your couch and play your guitar and imagine yourself playing in front of an audience or a camera that's one thing. If you want to play real blues like a real blues man on a real blues stage with a real blues audience. Expect to practice your ass off. Expect that everyone will be staring at your hands in the crowd and most will think they can play better then you and want you off the stage so they have thier chance at the limelight. People don't go to blues bars to drink. People don't go to blues bars to listen to heavy metal or rock or jazz or country or experimental music. They go for the blues because they love the blues and they expect quality blues to be performed.

just curious, what about people who sit on their couch and do not imagine themselves in front of large audiences? Contrary to popular belief not every true artist has to dream of being a well known or even a known artist. The person who's expectations you should care about is your own expectations. Those who seem to believe they can define my expectations are not worth a moment of my time, that's for sure (besides I am far harder on myself than anyone)...so does that make me less of an artist?

Really Mike, some of your stories...like if someone approached the stage and were just a little bit out of tune as I recall they were told not to come back to your club, not told they needed to retune so I guess you're a much tougher man than I and Detroit is a hell of a lot tougher than Boston (though I have no idea how one defines toughness)

BTW FTR everything I do is real...you also have no right to define what is and what isn't real blues

[tapper mike]

I don't begrudge someone for having a cheap guitar. I've had magnums's kay's and currently own a rondo.

Though I do regret the rondo purchase.

I do appreciate a quality guitar and I've worked two sometimes three jobs just to afford one. The thing is for a little more you can get a lot better guitar. Like my RWG 450 which blows away Samick Royale's MK Patriots, epi's and a lot of the basement bottom Tursers et all.

Bottom of the barrel guitars don't last too long for me (usually)
I had a mitchell LP copy 3/4 guitar. Sounded like a blueshawk. Lots of fun to play. I had to replace the nut, the tuners, the tune-o-match bridge, the pickups the jack plate. The frets were of this really cheap nickel chrome and they got nicked. Eventually I had to refret it. The body was a soft wood the finish cracked and chipped. When the neck started twisting I could take no more and threw it in the dumpster.

For a time it was my travel guitar. I'd bring it everywhere. At the laundrymat or in the back while on a lunch break from work, or take it to a park with my pignose amp. The guitar lasted me four years. It would have been a lot cheaper to buy another midline guitar like a samick, not have to buy all the hardware and pay for the repair and it would still be around.

IMHO when you buy a guitar it should be for life. Why buy something that you'll throw out in a few years or accept something less.

[Hink]

I don't begrudge someone for having a cheap guitar. I've had magnums's kay's and currently own a rondo.

Though I do regret the rondo purchase.

I do appreciate a quality guitar and I've worked two sometimes three jobs just to afford one. The thing is for a little more you can get a lot better guitar. Like my RWG 450 which blows away Samick Royale's MK Patriots, epi's and a lot of the basement bottom Tursers et all.

Bottom of the barrel guitars don't last too long for me (usually)
I had a mitchell LP copy 3/4 guitar. Sounded like a blueshawk. Lots of fun to play. I had to replace the nut, the tuners, the tune-o-match bridge, the pickups the jack plate. The frets were of this really cheap nickel chrome and they got nicked. Eventually I had to refret it. The body was a soft wood the finish cracked and chipped. When the neck started twisting I could take no more and threw it in the dumpster.

For a time it was my travel guitar. I'd bring it everywhere. At the laundrymat or in the back while on a lunch break from work, or take it to a park with my pignose amp. The guitar lasted me four years. It would have been a lot cheaper to buy another midline guitar like a samick, not have to buy all the hardware and pay for the repair and it would still be around.

IMHO when you buy a guitar it should be for life. Why buy something that you'll throw out in a few years or accept something less.

so you dont remember giving me this whole business about how you waited years to start playing guitar until you worked hard to save enough money to buy a Gibson (I think it was a Gibson, not a Les Paul, I forget the model)...you told me you didn't know how I could learn anything with a cheap guitar. You back that up with that last statement that shows one, you have never had kids and two you dont get it. Why accept anything less, because sometimes it takes compromise to grow...something else surely can be better than nothing at all (which you agree with in the rest of your post so forgive me, I am confused)...

[tapper mike]

just curious, what about people who sit on their couch and do not imagine themselves in front of large audiences? Contrary to popular belief not every true artist has to dream of being a well known or even a known artist. The person who's expectations you should care about is your own expectations. Those who seem to believe they can define my expectations are not worth a moment of my time, that's for sure (besides I am far harder on myself than anyone)...so does that make me less of an artist?

Honestly, That's what I do. Sit at home and play my guitar for me. I've got no issues with someone who is content to do that. The personal joy of playing it brings to you is something I'd never want to take away nor do I have right to do so. I don't judge what people do in thier own home.

Yes Detroit is a rough city.
Have you ever had to lay face down in two feet of snow with one cop pointing a gun at your head while another pats you down? I have, simply because one of my neighbors was a crack dealer and I was at the wrong place (coming home from a gig) at the wrong time.

Have you ever been shot or stabbed? I have. I've been robbed at gun point and knife point. Have you ever walked out to your car and found all the windows smashed just becasue some kid was looking for street cred? I have.

Have you ever come home to find your front door and the threshold laying on the porch and every thing you own stolen? I have.

How many of your teeth do you still have? I've lost more then my fair share just fending off drunks who want to make a name for themselves by getting into a fight. (as the country song goes)

Eventually I moved out of the city. I had enough. I had enough of the whores working the sidewalk in front of the building next to mine. I had enough of the cops who would only show up three days after a shooting "Once the situation calmed down" I had enough of the time honored tradition of people shooting off their guns on New Years Eve and the cops taking the night off so as not to catch any stray bullets. I had enough of the burglarires and robberies. I had enough of my nieghbors wanting to do crack in my apartment because they were paranoid about doing it in thier own. Enough was enough.

Re Boston vs Detroit.
Boston has a murder rate of 9.0
Detroit has a murder rate of 54.6
Boston has a violent crime rate of 835.0
Detroit has a violent crime rate of 2,122.9

So yeah over 5 times the murder rate and almost three times the violent crime rate that's reported.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... crime_rate

Since I moved to Wixom. I can walk down the street day or night without looking over my shoulder. No robberies no burglaries no assaults. A cop did stop me one night. Very polite didn't reach for the gun first. We talked apparently someone matching my description (not me) had started some shit in a bar (later it turned ot to be the Ford Shooter)

I've never had my place broken into. The landlord maintains the property well, the rent was/is actually cheaper then in the city.

[tapper mike]

I don't begrudge someone for having a cheap guitar. I've had magnums's kay's and currently own a rondo.

Though I do regret the rondo purchase.

I do appreciate a quality guitar and I've worked two sometimes three jobs just to afford one. The thing is for a little more you can get a lot better guitar. Like my RWG 450 which blows away Samick Royale's MK Patriots, epi's and a lot of the basement bottom Tursers et all.

Bottom of the barrel guitars don't last too long for me (usually)
I had a mitchell LP copy 3/4 guitar. Sounded like a blueshawk. Lots of fun to play. I had to replace the nut, the tuners, the tune-o-match bridge, the pickups the jack plate. The frets were of this really cheap nickel chrome and they got nicked. Eventually I had to refret it. The body was a soft wood the finish cracked and chipped. When the neck started twisting I could take no more and threw it in the dumpster.

For a time it was my travel guitar. I'd bring it everywhere. At the laundrymat or in the back while on a lunch break from work, or take it to a park with my pignose amp. The guitar lasted me four years. It would have been a lot cheaper to buy another midline guitar like a samick, not have to buy all the hardware and pay for the repair and it would still be around.

IMHO when you buy a guitar it should be for life. Why buy something that you'll throw out in a few years or accept something less.

so you dont remember giving me this whole business about how you waited years to start playing guitar until you worked hard to save enough money to buy a Gibson (I think it was a Gibson, not a Les Paul, I forget the model)...you told me you didn't know how I could learn anything with a cheap guitar. You back that up with that last statement that shows one, you have never had kids and two you dont get it. Why accept anything less, because sometimes it takes compromise to grow...something else surely can be better than nothing at all (which you agree with in the rest of your post so forgive me, I am confused)...

I had those guitars but I didn't want to take them with me everywhere.
That's why I got a travel guitar. Something I wouldn't be heart broken over if it was stolen and I could take with me places. If you have a nice guitar you are less inclined to take it everywhere with you.

[Uncle E]

I don't begrudge someone for having a cheap guitar.

You don't occur to me as being a guitar snob. I'm certainly a much bigger snob than you, I like mid-priced Korean PRS's and ESP's but that's about it. I'm a Warmoth man till the end.

[tapper mike]

Also,,,

I bought the mitchell AFTER I moved out of Detroit and AFTER both my 335 and LP custom stolen from my car. I still had the strat, the LP Deluxe, several samicks and my LR Baggs Godin not to mention a few more. The mitchell wasn't a stage or a recording guitar it was just a little practice guitar i could take with me to the laundrymat or sit in my car between working two jobs and play a bit between shifts.

At one time I had over 50 guitars because... I could.
Kramer's, ibby's, the original (made in us) jb player, washburns, jackson dinky more samicks westone, alvarez, ovation, guild, peavey, etc etc. Back in the 80's I was living large and had close to a grand a month "throw away" money that I could drop on guitars. I still dressed well and ate well.

Right now I have ten guitars. 3 godin's, the strat, the RWG, the Parker, the MK, the samick, the blacktop tele and the Rondo tele copy.

Not to mention the two ztars, the ez eg, the DG20 and I threw out the yrg.

[Hink]

just curious, what about people who sit on their couch and do not imagine themselves in front of large audiences? Contrary to popular belief not every true artist has to dream of being a well known or even a known artist. The person who's expectations you should care about is your own expectations. Those who seem to believe they can define my expectations are not worth a moment of my time, that's for sure (besides I am far harder on myself than anyone)...so does that make me less of an artist?

Honestly, That's what I do. Sit at home and play my guitar for me. I've got no issues with someone who is content to do that. The personal joy of playing it brings to you is something I'd never want to take away nor do I have right to do so. I don't judge what people do in thier own home.

Yes Detroit is a rough city.
Have you ever had to lay face down in two feet of snow with one cop pointing a gun at your head while another pats you down? I have, simply because one of my neighbors was a crack dealer and I was at the wrong place (coming home from a gig) at the wrong time.

Have you ever been shot or stabbed? I have. I've been robbed at gun point and knife point. Have you ever walked out to your car and found all the windows smashed just becasue some kid was looking for street cred? I have.

Have you ever come home to find your front door and the threshold laying on the porch and every thing you own stolen? I have.

How many of your teeth do you still have? I've lost more then my fair share just fending off drunks who want to make a name for themselves by getting into a fight. (as the country song goes)

Eventually I moved out of the city. I had enough. I had enough of the whores working the sidewalk in front of the building next to mine. I had enough of the cops who would only show up three days after a shooting "Once the situation calmed down" I had enough of the time honored tradition of people shooting off their guns on New Years Eve and the cops taking the night off so as not to catch any stray bullets. I had enough of the burglarires and robberies. I had enough of my nieghbors wanting to do crack in my apartment because they were paranoid about doing it in thier own. Enough was enough.

Re Boston vs Detroit.
Boston has a murder rate of 9.0
Detroit has a murder rate of 54.6
Boston has a violent crime rate of 835.0
Detroit has a violent crime rate of 2,122.9

So yeah over 5 times the murder rate and almost three times the violent crime rate that's reported.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... crime_rate

Since I moved to Wixom. I can walk down the street day or night without looking over my shoulder. No robberies no burglaries no assaults. A cop did stop me one night. Very polite didn't reach for the gun first. We talked apparently someone matching my description (not me) had started some shit in a bar (later it turned ot to be the Ford Shooter)

I've never had my place broken into. The landlord maintains the property well, the rent was/is actually cheaper then in the city.

I'll never be half the man you are Mike...I'm surprised Hollywood hasn't asked you for your story, or at least comic books?

oh btw, when one starts with a cheap guitar most people do not throw them away. Typically people upgrade to a better fir as they learn...often through trade-ins, it's actually quite common...just thought I would mention that.

[Mister Natural]

Hink - who pissed in your cheerios today ?

give it a rest . . .

[Hink]

Hink - who pissed in your cheerios today ?

give it a rest . . .

1. nothing, I am in great mood and things are awesome

2> okay