The drum machine is dead. LONG LIVE THE DRUM MACHINE!

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Do you use hardware drum synths or software and samples only?

Hardware drum synths all the way, how dare you use a computer!
3
3%
Software and samples only please.
34
32%
Software or hardware is fine as long it it gets me where I want to go.
58
55%
You'll pry my x0x box out of my cold dead hands.
1
1%
I hit things with sticks. (sometimes fish)
9
9%
 
Total votes: 105

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There. I said it. :scared:

Note: I'm not a drum machine "player" in the way a lot of people are. I'm a guitarist and keyboard player for the most part, so I mostly use these boxes for composition and not performance.

Lately I've been G.A.S.'n for a hardware drum machine. Why? Not sure but they're sexy to me. It's not like I'm a drum machine virgin. I've had many though my life, starting with the Mattel Synsonics in 1980 or so. Like so many, I was disappointed with the lack of realism of the early analog stuff, and later came to appreciate it.

At a point in the early 90s I grew frustrated with the sequencers in these boxes and I abandoned them for a "workstation" keyboard. Ensoniq TS-10. Loved that sucker. Fun and fast to work on. All the drums were PCM samples so basically if you couldn't get the sound you wanted with effects (which were quite good for their time)

Anyway, I went though a few other boxes including a E-MU Commandstation and a Korg ESX-1 though at some point all of them bugged me in some way. It was around this time that I was starting to abandon live performance anyway, so I transitioned to a laptop/Live setup.

"So what's your point?" you're probably asking. I'm asking it as well! What the hell is my point? I guess my point is, I still lust after having some sort of drum oriented hardware. I don't care about a sequencer, I'm sure of that, but most have them built in so it's no big deal. Lately, there have been a little flood of boxes that have all initially excited me, then left me cold for some reason.

Vermona DRM1 MkIII: love the sound... no preset memory makes me sad.

Korg Volca Beats: Pretty good sound... except for that lame snare. A bit too limited sonically but this could be the box considering how cheap it is.

DSI Tempest: I was so excited for this one. I'm a DSI fan but man I found the sound demos to really be lacking for a machine that comes in at $2000 usd.

Elektron Analog RYTM: I was also thinking this one might be "The One" until I heard the demos. Unless they're just bad at sound design, all the demos I've heard just sound kind of stiff and lifeless. Maybe they're over compressing it? Also, I hate the Elektron workflow especially when it comes to saving drum and kit patches. This hate comes from owning a Machinedrum, but maybe the RYTM is different.

Nord Drum II: Love the audio demos... seems like the perfect box. I'm not sure why I'm not pulling the trigger other than it's pure digital and I wonder if it'll give me anything beyond what I have in software (see below) I don't feel it's necessary to own hardware unless it really gives a noticeable sonic edge of some sort or has a very cool interface, which the Nord Drum II does not. It's UI isn't bad, but not great.

Roland Aira TR-8: This was kind of a surprise. I knew Roland wasn't going to roll over and give up on their quest to be all digital, but I have to say that I was plesently surprised by the demos I've heard. Somehow they seem to have nailed that classic TR sound. Not sure why people are so surprised that Roland can actually do good VA modeling, but so be it. What bugs me about it the most is that while Roland is busy yelling that this is going to be "the next step" it's just the next step for them. It's as if they haven't looked at the state of drum machines since the 909, including their own machines. So... this one is still a bit of a contender but I find myself thinking, "it's just code running in a box... why couldn't they have gone further with the synth engine?" And, "will this give me better sound than my software?"

... and that brings me to software. I've got a very nice complement of drum synthesis plug ins including xoxo's Bong (80n9), µtonic, Extreme Drum Synth, Drumaxx, Tremor, Breaktweaker, Ironhead and Maschine. I also own Battery and BPM samplers.

So, I guess where all this is going is that every time I look at a cool drum synth box of some sort, I always look at my virtual arsenal and say, "No. They'll have to do better to get me to buy their box!" I've gotten to the point where I'm seriously thinking, "The drum machine is officially over." Yeah, I know a lot of you are still fans and love the tactile feel of them, but to those people I say, "Get a Maschine and a good laptop." (while I don't think Maschine is perfect as a sequencer, it's a hell of a lot better than any dedicated drum machine I've ever used and the included library is quite good).

RIP Drum machine! (or is it? :scared: )
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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When you're making beats that need an arbitrary level of detail, nothing beats having unlimited samplers and synths on a computer screen. I have so much stuff waiting for me to use it, so many samples and ideas, I don't think I'll ever need a physical drum machine. I'd be more likely to get a kit or some other form of percussion.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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ill hit anything. including fish.

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have one for occasional 'therapy'.

just avoid the new expensive ones and get a cheapish old
plastic 80s one that is hard work.

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mztk wrote:have one for occasional 'therapy'.

just avoid the new expensive ones and get a cheapish old
plastic 80s one that is hard work.
Hm... for instance?

I should also mention that I have a Tenori-on which is the only hardware sequencer I actually really love. It's so weird and quirky it just begs you to do weird stuff.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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there's a mod for the volca beats which ''fixes'' the snare..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3bmype2c0

there's more mods in the link below the vid
no sig

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loopdon wrote:there's a mod for the volca beats which ''fixes'' the snare..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3bmype2c0

there's more mods in the link below the vid
Yeah, I saw that some time ago and thought, "that's excellent for someone who doesn't have a 11 month old running around. Time is money. Frankly, I'm surprised Korg let it out of their prototype stage in it's current condition. Did no one say, "WTF is up with that snare?" I wouldn't be surprised if they did a Volca Beats MkII that fixes it. Hell, what I really wish is they did a Volca Beats Pro that had a few more synth voices.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Check out Moby's drum machine collection!! He's obsessed with them!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9q48UlfD1w

Me I'd love to find a working decent Roland R8 (not the MKII) with some cards. not cheap and harder and harder to find.

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zerocrossing wrote:
mztk wrote:have one for occasional 'therapy'.

just avoid the new expensive ones and get a cheapish old
plastic 80s one that is hard work.
Hm... for instance?
Maybe try and R8, RS7000, or maybe even an Emu Command Station again (if you can bare the menu structure, the synthesis is really quite deep). Or Maybe something like an MV-8800.

I'm a drum machine guy. I've never met a drum machine that I couldn't sit with for a couple hours and bang out something resembling a song. I remember spending a lot of time with a Tascam porta-studio and a DR-202, before I could afford a better setup. I really enjoy playing with step sequencers in particular. It doesn't matter if it's event style editing or x0x style editing, I just don't have much skill when it comes to banging on pads.

Anyway, if you are looking for something that is fun to play, maybe look at an MFB-522 a Korg Electribe or a Roland SH-32.

If you aren't into Elektron stuff, I won't recommend the Analog RYTM. I, on the other hand, am all over that shit.

I can't comment on the Tempest. I have used one but I didn't spend enough time with it to make a judgement.

Honestly, it sounds like you have a solution looking for a problem. If you have a workflow that works for you (Machine and such), why let GAS f**k that up? You'll probably just end up frustrated.

I'm not saying drum machines are dead... they are alive and kicking over here. :)
But maybe you have just found better solutions itb.

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zerocrossing wrote:
loopdon wrote:there's a mod for the volca beats which ''fixes'' the snare..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3bmype2c0

there's more mods in the link below the vid
Yeah, I saw that some time ago and thought, "that's excellent for someone who doesn't have a 11 month old running around. Time is money. Frankly, I'm surprised Korg let it out of their prototype stage in it's current condition. Did no one say, "WTF is up with that snare?" I wouldn't be surprised if they did a Volca Beats MkII that fixes it. Hell, what I really wish is they did a Volca Beats Pro that had a few more synth voices.
The crappy snare is what made me pass up the Beats. The snare's the most important part of any beat, and it sounds so bad it almost sounds borked. And not in a good way either. It's just ugly. A bontempi snare is more desirable :hihi: It's a shame as the kick and most of the other voices are pretty nice and the form factor of the Volcas are pure fun.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!

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It's gas, get over it, get a push and don't look back. I have owned a lot of drum machines and I performed live in the 90s with a TR909. Music itself has changed, and despite the fact that everyone is willing to sell you on their vision of performance tweaks that fell out of favor by the late 90s, those tweaks aren't really coming back into fashion.

In summary however, analog drum machines largely suck unless they're special purpose built designs. If I were going to buy a live machine today, I'd still buy either a machinedrum or a used Jomox 09, the latter being one of the few really hot analog designs. The Nord Drum II is hot. Roland, on the other hand, does "realistic" digital well, but doesn't know how to make it current. Their shit will be forgotten because audiences haven't been impressed by sweeping a cymbal pitch since about 1995. The Korg stuff is cheap as chips and sounds so, but it will impress the right audiences because it's cheap as chips in every way. As for a Verona, if you like the sound, stop being a pussy and deal without memory. DSI? What do you expect from the same synth on a chip in every DSI product. The CEM synth on a chip wasn't designed to be an interesting drum synth and it never will be.

Hot: Mbrane, Nord II, Electron
Not: Anything by Roland, DSI
Cheap: Korg

My advice: Get the Nord AND the Mbrane, depending on budget, play them with your software sequencer, a TR-707, or a machine-drum.

On Edit: RS7000 is ok, it's what I switched to in the early naughties from my live with 909 setup. The problem with it is that the drum sounds are somewhat dated, the sampler management sucks, and the synth engine sucks as well. It doesn't make a good drum synth+sequencer. It's really more a sequencer than drum synth. Still, they are cheap. I have two, I should have sold them a few years back. Korg Electribes are also great as someone else suggested. The problem with all of these is, what do you want to get out of it, live sequencing, interesting and spontaneous sounds? Application is everything.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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I'm not opposed to hardware at all... But currently, I like having loads of layering options, etc. So, Geist does me well at the moment...
I will take the Lord's name in vain, whenever I want. Hail Satan! And his little goblins too. :lol:

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ghettosynth wrote:It's gas, get over it, get a push and don't look back. I have owned a lot of drum machines and I performed live in the 90s with a TR909. Music itself has changed, and despite the fact that everyone is willing to sell you on their vision of performance tweaks that fell out of favor by the late 90s, those tweaks aren't really coming back into fashion.

In summary however, analog drum machines largely suck unless they're special purpose built designs. If I were going to buy a live machine today, I'd still buy either a machinedrum or a used Jomox 09, the latter being one of the few really hot analog designs. The Nord Drum II is hot. I'm also not impressed by the Electron analog drum machine and I think that it's largely because they've caved to the pressure to create analog drum machines when what they do best is digital. Roland, on the other hand, does "realistic" digital well, but doesn't know how to make it current. Their shit will be forgotten because audiences haven't been impressed by sweeping a cymbal pitch since about 1995. The Korg stuff is cheap as chips and sounds so, but it will impress the right audiences because it's cheap as chips in every way. As for a Verona, if you like the sound, stop being a pussy and deal without memory. DSI? What do you expect from the same synth on a chip in every DSI product. The CEM synth on a chip wasn't designed to be an interesting drum synth and it never will be.

Hot: Mbrane, Nord II, Electron if it isn't analog
Not: Anything by Roland, DSI
Cheap: Korg

My advice: Get the Nord AND the Mbrane, depending on budget, play them with your software sequencer, a TR-707, or a machine-drum.

On Edit: RS7000 is ok, it's what I switched to in the early naughties from my live with 909 setup. The problem with it is that the drum sounds are somewhat dated, the sampler management sucks, and the synth engine sucks as well. It doesn't make a good drum synth+sequencer. It's really more a sequencer than drum synth. Still, they are cheap. I have two, I should have sold them a few years back. Korg Electribes are also great as someone else suggested. The problem with all of these is, what do you want to get out of it, live sequencing, interesting and spontaneous sounds? Application is everything.
GAS isn't really screwing me up, though I get momentarily excited when the next machine is announced. It's a fun internal drama I keep going to distract me from the incessant march of entropy. :hihi:

I'm more interested in interesting and spontaneous sounds. Like I said earlier, I can do live sequencing using Ableton Live in a flexible and quick way that I don't think is possible with any hardware sequencer. If the Machinedrum had a better preset audition/management system I'd have never sold it and I probably wouldn't be writing this thread. I'm kind of thinking that the Nord Drum II is that box to some degree. The m.brane11 just looks like fun. I'm waiting to find one used at a decent price.

It's funny, I've actually kind of landed on pretty much exactly what you recommended. Go with the Nord Drum II and a m.brane11... or nothing. It is true, I've got a solution looking for a problem, and I know that. But... drum machines are fun to talk about, no? I'm always interested in other people's take on things.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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By all means, I love talking about drum machines. :D
I tend to focus on the sequencer side of drum machines because I have a lot of options for generating sounds. I don't really know what is out there in terms of drum synths (besides the Vermona, Jomox and Nord synths already mentioned).

There is a lot of cool drum synth stuff coming out in Eurorack format but again, limited/no patch recall and unless you have a complete system, getting the sounds you want is going to be tough.

I think Ghettosynth hit the nail on the head, if you are looking for performance oriented drum synths you don't have many options but they are good options.

Also, I don't necessarily think the whole "solution in search of a problem" thing is bad. I'm the kind of guy that will buy something because it looks cool then I'll worry about making it do something useful. I also know that not everyone works the way I do. :)

Maybe think about sound sources that aren't specifically "drum" sounds. :shrug: I have a piezo mic that I like to run through a bunch of pedals. It's great for making crazy out-of-this-world sounds. It's tough to get a good performance but I can always cut up the recording and load the samples into my Octatrack.

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I'm perfectly happy with sample libraries of the great sounding analog drum synths (none of which are in production since the '80s), I don't need the real ones, the multi-sampling is good enough. If I want simple "percussive" sounds (that includes any standard oscillator / noise / filter / ringmod etc. combo), I can get great results from a plain (as in without the super complex dedicated design per voice) analog synth or a TX7, but that's nothing like those drum synths.

If I want great real drum samples, I have the best ones from various hardware products, and many great real drum sample libraries. So I definitely don't need hardware for recorded samples.

And I have some real drums I can record whenever I want, and I have a Wavedrum, it's fun and sounds good.

And the sequencers?... f**k hardware.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi

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