Live Amp v. Mike'd Amp

[bharris22]

Hi Everyone,

I have (another) stupid question. Why does a guitar amp sound different if you are hearing it live (for example, standing in front of it while playing) instead of hearing it through a microphone? I ask because I have a Randall high gain amp (the Diavlo RD5H). When I play this amp, it does not sound nearly as thick or high gain as I think it should compared to the video demonstrations of this same amp on YouTube. I don't think it is the tubes, as this is my second one of these amps (I returned the first one for the same reason). I am assuming that, as all of the amps and recordings on YouTube are miked, this is because miking the amp creates a different type of sound than hearing one live directly from the speaker - is that correct?

Thanks for helping me understand this.

[thecontrolcentre]

Could be because you are playing it ... also, without recording the amp it would be difficult to put it on youtube.

[lfm]

An amp is not just an amp - there is an instrument in the input jack as well.
Don't underestimate how different guitars sound in the same amp.

So check out what they use on YouTube demos.
American made guitars or asian made etc - stock pickups are very different quality.

The settings used as well, if that is available on demos.
Any compressor or other pedals in front?

And the room used for miking it - and possible effects when making the video.
It's not uncommon for fullblown artists to fix up their performance from a live show in the studio afterwords. So for a demo, anything goes is my assumption.

But usually the difficult part is to make a recorded guitar sound good compared to listening in the room you play it. So I understand that you react if amp is sounding thin live.

You've got the head - which speaker are you using?
Is the demo with 5W amp as well?
They probably run a stronger amp for demo, I my guess.

[bharris22]

Thanks! I am playing through a Jet City cabinet with the stock 12" Eminence (designed) speaker. I'm new to recording guitars using real amps (have been using sims for a while), but will try to find time to run the XLR out of the head to see how that sounds - in other words, if it is closer to the video demos, or to the sound I hear through my cab.

[rockstar_not]

XLR out of the head will sound even less like you expect.

Micing amps involves some knowledge of mic placement as well as mic selection, in addition to what has been mentioned already.

Depending on where you place the mic from the center to edge of the speaker actually matters, as does the angle and proximity of the mic capsule to the face of the speaker.

Plenty of demonstrations of this online - here's one with a 12" Eminence speaker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQX71Ycrg28

Note what happens with the different positions and with double tracking as well. That's why amp sims are attractive to me!

[Bhan]

You tube - or any internet media usually compresses the crap out of everything. There is absolute resolution when you're standing in front of a cabinet as long as it's not a simulation type of amp. You will need to squash things in the signal chain if you want a you tube sound at the source. I can understand you want a certain sound - but the real world and the recording/playback world different things.

[bharris22]

That's interesting - I know that the real world and the recording world seem to have different sounds from the same amp/cab combination. I am trying to understand exactly why. If I understand you correctly, part of the answer may be that the YT sound is heavily compressed, and therefore there is very little dynamic range in the recorded versions of these amps I am hearing - is that correct? Would the use of a compressor pedal tend to accentuate the midrange of the amp (which is where I understand much of the gain would be)?

[rockstar_not]

If you are simply asking why recorded sounds different than standing in front of the amp, that's very easy. You hear with more than your ears. If you have things turned up sufficiently loud, a decent stack will move your clothing, set your body cavities moving, hair cells moving, etc. You can't reproduce that with a recording.

[bharris22]

But in what way would the recorded sound differ? Is there less (whether actual or perceived) mid-range frequency in the recording v. live playing, more bass in the live playing, etc?

Thanks!

[rockstar_not]

But in what way would the recorded sound differ? Is there less (whether actual or perceived) mid-range frequency in the recording v. live playing, more bass in the live playing, etc?

Thanks!

There are nearly an infinite number of reasons why a recording of an amp sounds different than standing directly in front of it. Besides the very likely reason I posted just above, I'll list a few more and then bow out of the conversation:

1. Room acoustics differences between playback room and recording room
2. Microphone characteristics - these are legion
3. Where you place the microphone - did you listen to the YouTube I posted above?
4. Recording signal chain
5. Signal chain into the amp (including pickups, cabling, etc.)
6. Playback signal chain - everything, speakers, headphones, amps, equalization, etc.
7. Data compression methods
etc.

One cannot say definitively why you are noticing a difference, specifically in frequency, etc. All of the above can and will contribute to a difference. The biggest difference is YOU - where you stand, how you hear, your playing style versus playing style of the person making the demo, etc.

[Aleatoriac]

There are so many different factors. As posted above, everything from how the player attacks the strings, the type of pickups, what kind of guitar... With tube amps of course most of them need power amp saturation to really "open up" and I think the main difference between "amp in a room" and "Mic'd through monitors" is that - sufficiently loud - the sound from the cabinet gets picked up by the guitar pickups and there's feedback, resonance, and everything not only sounds but feels different when you play thought the whole assembly.

Plus the mic has an EQ curve of its own. It's never going to pick up what our ears hear out of the cabinet, not exactly.

Maybe.

[whyterabbyt]

Why does a guitar amp sound different if you are hearing it live (for example, standing in front of it while playing) instead of hearing it through a microphone?

in short, it sounds different because it is different. microphones and ears have different frequency responses, they pick up ambience differently, they respond to sound pressure differently, they're positioned in front of the audio source differently. etc etc.

[ew]

Could be because you are playing it

This.

The biggest part of your tone is you- how you attack the strings, etc. You aren't going to sound anything like me if you play through my amp, and vice versa.

ew

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Proximity effect also will play a part using say the tried and trusted combo of a senny md421 and shure sm57 to mic up the cab, The phase response of each relative to one another along with the space it was captured in too. Might not even be the dedicated cab enclosure and loudspeaker which Randall designed to go with it, They alone are some massive variables let alone adding up what all the other good folk/dude's have mentioned.

Rivera Amplification (by the legendary Paul Rivera) have done a few rather decent video/audio clips of how different models of loud speakers by different manufacturers sound using the same setup for example which are worth listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI

Keith Merrow courtesy of Seymour Duncan has done a few videos of the various humbucking models available, Similar to how Rivera did the loud speaker test which is again mighty revealing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzie8mham8

Everything down to choice of plectrum are wildly variable and with valve amplification by its very nature it will never sound identical and add-in the human element of never being to repeat exactly the same take twice perfectly it becomes glaringly obvious that there are so many factors. Some of the brains behind your rather nice little version of a beastly high-gain monster amp demonstrates rather well how things sound so varied whilst he is tracking via a few different microphones what goes into DAW/Onto disk and what is then spat out via the converters (with some layering, equalization and dynamic processing from within said DAW), Actually there is one of the very amp head in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ZnVQMTPJ0

This article is also a good read, Basically how voicing a guitar amplifier speaker to break up is rather tricky and hit 'n miss process and is a wealth of information/good reading that all sound nerds will either already know about, read or want to: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb12/a ... eakers.htm

The latest, Self-Titled album by The Haunted is absolutely bloody great and as much as miss Peter Dolving's vocals, Anders Bjorler's lead and rhythm guitar work and also Per Moller Jensen's drumming, It is fantastic to have Marco Aro in the fold again for the more brutal death/thrash vocal he delivers so well, Adrian Erlandsson back on a throne worthy of his talent (C.O.F Adrian, WTF were you thinking & Paradise Lost as much as I'm a big fan...You're we're wasted playing such material IMveryhumbleHO) and Joining the two Jensen's on guitar, The ideal man for the job that was/is Ola Englund

Anyway enough rattling on from me, I hope some of what I'm going on about is useful to the thread

All the best to all as always

Dean

[RunBeerRun]

I think to do all this, you would need-

-patience

-or a dedicated, sound isolated room

I've tried positioning a mike with headphones on, but it's blasting at me from all directions...