KVR Audio

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:22 pm

I hope this is the right forum... Im looking at upgrading my interface/pres (I have a shitty old M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R).

After a lot of research Ive decided I want to build around an RME HDSPe RayDAT card, and then get an 8 in, 8 out preamp+AD/DA converter that I can ADAT into/out of the RME card.

I am looking at a few options

ART TubeOpto 8
Presonus Digimax FS
Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic
Behringer ADA8200

All of these products (I think?) meet my requirements - they have 8 mic pres, that can be sent via ADAT to the RME card, and they also have ADAT inputs with 8 line outs that I can use to receive the ADAT output of the RME.

My main concern is noise floor and sound quality. I have a feeling the Behringer would be the worst on both counts? But Ive seen mixed reviews of the TubeOpto too. If anyone can offer any concrete advice on the noise floor and quality of each of these pres that would be great.

edit: i should add im particularly interested in the noise floor on the HiZ inputs, since I use a lot of amp sims and due to the high gain nature of guitar amps, the digital noise floor gets significantly boosted, resulting in a significant change in character/tone. hence my desire for HiZ ins that are as clean and noiseless as possible

Also Im aware the Digimax FS is discontinued, which sucks cause the current model only does AD but not DA, and I really like the fact the FS has its XLR inputs on the front panel

However if the pres on it are the best option I guess Ill hope I can find one second hand in good condition.

Finally if theres any other products with 8 pres, 8 line outs and ADAT I/O with better quality preamps, Im all ears

Cheers.

stanlea · Post by **stanlea** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:43 am

This is a very good hardware chain. In my view, you should get separate gear for converters and preamps. For converters see Ferrofish ADAT, good and no so expensive and get several preamps with different flavours.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:44 am

Possibly the Behringer unit is worst quality of all stuff on your list. I've worked with its predecessor, the ADA8000, and could not find a flaw. Works like it says on the box. Sorry

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:01 am

stanlea wrote:For converters see Ferrofish ADAT, good and no so expensive and get several preamps with different flavours.

i dont think i can afford the RME, a pre AND the Ferrofish

would be cool though

sazb30 · Post by **sazb30** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:10 am

Focusrite have a new one coming out in their Claret range, although not sure when and no price info yet afaik..

I use one of their old octopres with my RME Babyface pro and it works fine for me. Probably not the best converters in the world but perfectly acceptable!

Love RME.. Especially the Total Mix software, which I couldn't live without now!

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:50 am

But why not madi instead of adat?

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:55 am

BertKoor wrote:But why not madi instead of adat?

mainly because the RME MADI card is around twice the price of the ADAT one, and pres that support MADI also seem to cost a lot more... MADI would be cool if I could afford it

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:49 am

matthewjumps wrote:I hope this is the right forum... Im looking at upgrading my interface/pres (I have a shitty old M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R).

After a lot of research Ive decided I want to build around an RME HDSPe RayDAT card, and then get an 8 in, 8 out preamp+AD/DA converter that I can ADAT into/out of the RME card.

I am looking at a few options

ART TubeOpto 8

Presonus Digimax FS

Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic

Behringer ADA8200
Cheers.

The RME interface will be rock-solid.
The fidelity of the preamps listed above isn't a significant upgrade from the Ultra 8R.

Do you need 8 mic preamps (recording drumkits/etc)?

High-end mic preamps are expensive, but can make a huge difference.
Mics that sound strident with mediocre preamps suddenly sound focused/balanced.
ie: The Miktek CV4 (pretty decent mic) sounds ok... but not stellar with onboard RME preamps.
Plug the CV4 into a Neve Portico II preamp... and it's extremely focused/balanced.
The difference is night vs. day. It's like getting a whole new (upgraded) mic collection.
If you need 8-channels, the Neve (or similar) is probably out of the question.
If you're primarily doing over-dubs, it's worth considering.

kohitsu · Post by **kohitsu** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:33 am

I got a RayDAT and a Octopre mk2 two years ago and the combination is pretty good - I was mostly using it for synths, mics and for recording guitar - I did feel like the Hi-Z input sounded a bit dull though, can't remember specifics

Like Jim says, after I got a decent mic I decided to go down the rabbit hole and wanted to try to use some good standalone preamps - even if it meant fewer channels. What I ended up doing is getting two Warm Audio TB-12s, running them into a Behringer 2496 converter

and using the RayDAT's AES inputs (it's super useful that it has AES/SPDIF i/o too). It ended up being expensive - not as expensive as Jim's gear

- but at least it means I can't blame the preamps for how things sound

Of course, I still have the Octopre for when I need more channels - but if you're only going to be recording one thing at a time you may as well go for quality over quantity.

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:58 pm

kohitsu wrote:I got a RayDAT and a Octopre mk2 two years ago and the combination is pretty good - I was mostly using it for synths, mics and for recording guitar - I did feel like the Hi-Z input sounded a bit dull though, can't remember specifics

Like Jim says, after I got a decent mic I decided to go down the rabbit hole and wanted to try to use some good standalone preamps - even if it meant fewer channels. What I ended up doing is getting two Warm Audio TB-12s, running them into a Behringer 2496 converter and using the RayDAT's AES inputs (it's super useful that it has AES/SPDIF i/o too). It ended up being expensive - not as expensive as Jim's gear - but at least it means I can't blame the preamps for how things sound

Of course, I still have the Octopre for when I need more channels - but if you're only going to be recording one thing at a time you may as well go for quality over quantity.

I'm weighing the option of selling a kidney to fund a second Portico-II channel (for stereo recording and post processing).

It sounds amazingly good.

Skorpius · Post by **Skorpius** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:21 pm

matthewjumps wrote:
After a lot of research Ive decided I want to build around an RME HDSPe RayDAT card, and then get an 8 in, 8 out preamp+AD/DA converter that I can ADAT into/out of the RME card.

I am looking at a few options

ART TubeOpto 8

Presonus Digimax FS

Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic

Behringer ADA8200
Cheers.

How do you connect your monitors to the RayDat? Or would you connect them to 2 of the preamp outputs? I'm not so sure the latter would be such a good idea. I always thought the monitors should have to be directly connected to the interface as such, but maybe I'm wrong about this.

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:23 pm

Skorpius wrote:How do you connect your monitors to the RayDat? Or would you connect them to 2 of the preamp outputs? I'm not so sure the latter would be such a good idea. I always thought the monitors should have to be directly connected to the interface as such, but maybe I'm wrong about this.

All the devices Im looking at (except the Behringer which ive ruled out now anyway) have DA converters, they can accept ADAT in from the RayDAT and turn it into 8 line level outputs

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:27 pm

Jim Roseberry wrote: The fidelity of the preamps listed above isn't a significant upgrade from the Ultra 8R.

Do you need 8 mic preamps (recording drumkits/etc)?

I do need 8 pres as I do record drums, but the thing Im most interested in is the fidelity/clarity/noiselessness of the DI inputs, since that affects my ampsim tone a lot. Honestly the mic pres on the M-Audio are adequate to my ears, but the DI/HiZ inputs are really noisy, that and the poor latency is the main reason Im looking at upgrading my rig. I could probably get another separate expensive DI box just for guitars? I found someone who was willing to sell a second hand Digimax FS in good condition for a reasonable price, I could use that for mic pres and then fill the free 1U rack space Ill have with some kind of DI device?

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:19 pm

Yeah, 8-channels would get cost prohibitive with Neve.

I've owned some of the nicer dedicated DI boxes.
Avalon U5, Reddi Box, etc.
They're definitely a good step up from the FTU8R and most audio interface Hi-Z inputs.

On the lower cost side, both Warm and Golden Age Project are making some nice affordable preamps.
Warm - API clone
GAP - Neve clone

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:10 pm

Jim Roseberry wrote: On the lower cost side, both Warm and Golden Age Project are making some nice affordable preamps.
Warm - API clone
GAP - Neve clone

Those preamps both look great, I might end up getting the RME, a lower cost 8 channel pre like the Presonus or Focusrite, and then later on purchase some dedicated nice pres

Preamp+AD/DA converter with ADAT I/O