KVR Audio

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:53 pm

If it were me, I would change the panel layout significantly to avoid needless legal battles.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:58 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Goseba wrote:
xalama qo wrote:I wonder if Moog will have a problem with the visual design being so close to the real thing? Or is it just Roland who have a bug up their arse?
There was an interesting discussion regarding this on yesterdays Sonic Talk.
Moog could sue Behringer any day now

Why?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Because of patents.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:04 pm

I didn't have anything negative to say about the Deepmind but this seems kinda silly.
Sure it's inexpensive but it really doesn't seem to have anything special which would justify it being hardware. And to say that it's eurorack compatible, just because it has a few CV inputs and can fit between eurorack rails? C'mon!
You can't even control the pitch of each oscillator independently. True, you couldn't do that with an original Model D, but it wasn't designed to work in the context of a modular system!
To me, Roland's System-1m is more interesting than this. And it was not very interesting as far as I'm concerned.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:45 pm

chk071 wrote:Because of patents.

Pretty much every aspect of this synth has been copied before in software, hardware, Eurorack formats etc. This is nothing new other than they have copied the coulours/panel layout etc which may raise eyebrows...

As a Eurorack module it's pretty dull, I have a mother 32 and it is worth the extra to me for the 32 CV points, that's what makes it (semi) modular. This is a desktop synth with a few cv points. I am a fan of behringer, I have an X32 and a DeepMind12, but I will probably pass on this- put the DMs effects with cv control in Euro for 150 bucks

damoog · Post by **damoog** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:58 pm

honestly I hate this kind of bullshit,copying a legendary synth then depending on it to make sales is just typical of the modern way of what I call fast food marketing

why not target the £400 audience a new modern analog drum machine,there isn't that many(what 10?)

I think behringer on the other hand get a hard time and have some decent products which are more than fairly priced, i won't be getting this though

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:06 pm

damoog wrote:honestly I hate this kind of bullshit,copying a legendary synth then depending on it to make sales is just typical of the modern way of what I call fast food marketing

why not target the £400 audience a new modern analog drum machine,there isn't that many(what 10?)

I think behringer on the other hand get a hard time and have some decent products which are more than fairly priced, i won't be getting this though

I notice you have quite a few software modelled copies of legendary synths in your collection, what's the diference?

Timfonie · Post by **Timfonie** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:07 pm

Ik wonder if it can be programmed through the USB-port (or MIDI-port). That way it may become a programmable synth with an external preset library system.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:08 pm

damoog wrote:honestly I hate this kind of bullshit,copying a legendary synth then depending on it to make sales is just typical of the modern way of what I call fast food marketing

Behringer are notorious for this. In the past 5 or 6 years they have been more about innovation but looks like they are going back to their roots of literally copying designs/layouts, like they did in the Mackie vs Behringer days.

Then again.. why change the design when it's proven to be good? They did go a bit far with the switches and knobs though. But that's Behringer for ya.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:15 pm

ADS = Fail

idfpower · Post by **idfpower** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:04 pm

damoog wrote:honestly I hate this kind of bullshit,copying a legendary synth then depending on it to make sales is just typical of the modern way of what I call fast food marketing

why not target the £400 audience a new modern analog drum machine,there isn't that many(what 10?)

It sells. It's that simple. As long as there's demand, someone will (already did) build it.

There are enough drum machines in the 400 - 500 range (DrumBrute, Tanzmaus/Tanzbar, TR-09, SR18, Cyclone stuff, Akai cats, etc). How many more do you realistically need? In this age when PCs are far better choices?

As for Behringer, I've said this before: they're not just in for the show, they're going straight for the jugular and taking over the market. They will release a lot of stuff in a short time period and will cover all bases - from the cheapest units to the most expensive, from monos to full poly (already did).

Their policy works because they don't cater to ppl with particular needs like the rest of the crowd, but to ppl in need. When you have no other choice, B gets you money. Let me give you an example: I need an 8 input AI. There's no other option for the price than B's UMC. I have owned their stuff before, I currently still own and use some other stuff and planning of getting more as well; I'm fully aware of the (sometimes) hit or miss quality, but what can I do? I'm a family guy s saving is no option - not because they don't understand, but simply because I can't spoil myself with expensive hobby gear while they might need something of actual essential value, and not just comodities (like me). So at the end of the day it's B gear or no gear (don't get me started on the used market around this neck of the wood...).

On the other hand, everything is nowadays made in China - and often (if not usually) made in the very same factories. Just branded differently. So how much are we actually paying for production costs & R&D, and how much just for the printed logo? Some companies still deny the reality and keep the prices up for no other reason than squeezing their users dry. It's a different form of getting your money, but in the end they do get it.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:14 pm

chk071 wrote:Because of patents.

LOL! Which patents would those be? I have to laugh at KVR sometimes, you guys know jack shit about IP law but will argue nonsense until you're blue in the face. Is there a copyright violation here for the artwork, maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. It's different enough.

Any patents on the model D have long expired. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making your own version of a model D and trying to sell it. If you guys want to blame anyone, blame yourselves for having a nostalgia fetish. That's why this will sell, for the same reason that you want clones of the 909 and the 303 If you want new stuff, then buy new stuff and the market will respond.

Get mad at Behringer all you want, but I like their stuff and I like what they're doing to pressure the marketplace into being more competitive. To me, they are the new Mackie.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:26 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
chk071 wrote:Because of patents.
LOL! Which patents would those be? I have to laugh at KVR sometimes, you guys know jack shit about IP law but will argue nonsense until you're blue in the face. Is there a copyright violation here for the artwork, maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

So you laugh your ass off, because people know jack shit about IP law in your eyes, and in the last sentence in this quote you admit that there may be a copyright violation. Mhm, makes sense.

Minimoog just released the Minimoog reissue BTW. Just so you know. If the Behringer thing violates anything, i have no idea. I only wanted to state that i don't consider it completely out of this world to imagine that Moog could sue them for something, if they so blatantly copy one of their synths. And, no, i don't know much about patents, and the respective law. I never claimed i did. That doesn't mean i cannot explain why another member here may think that Moog could sue Behringer over this.

Frankly, i don't believe that Moog would really sue Behringer though, i don't think they'd risk a law suit they might lose, when they believe that there isn't any competition anyway, and, i really can't imagine that Moog considers BEHRINGER as competition, in any way...

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:27 pm

Trade dress is the only potential legal leg they would have to stand on:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:29 pm

chk071 wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
chk071 wrote:Because of patents.
LOL! Which patents would those be? I have to laugh at KVR sometimes, you guys know jack shit about IP law but will argue nonsense until you're blue in the face. Is there a copyright violation here for the artwork, maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
So you laugh your ass off, because people know jack shit about IP law in your eyes, and in the last sentence in this quote you admit that there may be a copyright violation.

Which ARE NOT THE SAME THING! Again, KVR seems to know jack shit about IP law and you just provided another data point.

There is no context whatsoever where stating that they might be sued over patents is a correct statement. You are patently WRONG! Pun intended. Accept it and move on.

Behringer D Synth - Full Analog, Eurorack compatible, No Keys, 400$