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Hehe well, I cannot agree, sorry :D. When it comes to real physical stuff such as reverbs in a church, it's almost impossible to emulate, not because of the reverb, but because of the nature of the sound source. Take violin for instance, it's not infinitely small point in space as we consider it when processing (with reverbs, both analog and digital). The amazing thing is the propagation of the sound waves from each point of the body, impossible to simulate really.

But electronic? Sorry, but it will die eventually :). Because:

1) The electronic signal is just a signal, same as digital, with more accuracy when it comes to representation, but far less accuracy when it comes to processing. You take that signal, process it with electronics and sample it... so eventually it becomes digital anyway. So whatever it was before, it just became some sort of signal.

2) The most important question is not if we can emulate electronics, because simply WE CAN, period. Hence it will die. But the main question for me, is it even worth considering spending time on such thing? You say yes, I say no :D, well, we'll have to agree on disagree.

I have talked to way too many people listening to the same signal and thinking one of them is better. Humans are just too easy to persuade that something is better from the big companies spending trillions on that propaganda (I understand that, it's business) and they can also persuade themselves :). I know that, I'm doing it too :D. Everyone time you buy something expensive you just need to persuade yourself it was a good thing :D. That's what Apple is based on :D.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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I wasn't talking about a "violin in a church", or any complex physical sound structure that you might imagine, but rather emulations of classic EQ's, compressors, etc.

You seem to think that bigger companies are - well, what exactly? Brainwashing listeners that their signal processing is better than that of Melda Production? :D :lol: Is this a feasible position? You cannot sustain this paranoid arrogance! :party:

Here is the point Vojtech, the crux of the matter - that for decades now, whether you like it or not, listeners have had a pleasant & favourable countenance toward warm, old fashioned, analogue sound. If this was a Gearslutz thread those old pro's would take you to task Mr. Melda! Would you disregard their decades of real, solid experience with a cavalier attitude? Just brush them off, just like that?

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Grizzellda wrote:pleasant & favourable countenance toward warm, old fashioned, analogue sound
I have no solid knowledge in this kind of area except my ears, but:

1. According to Vojtechs statement such a "pleasant (etc)" sound is reproducible - they guys from Imageline say similar things, if I rememebr right.

2. If I trust my ears I can say that I never heared a difference between the so called warm and pleasant sound and the things you can affort with "just" digital tools. I also really believe that Vojtech is right with the companies who try to sell products with impressive numebrs and "facts". I just have to think of the phonoplayer for example ... seriously: who can spot the difference between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz ? Correct: according to blindtests which were made: nobody. I also assume that some companies just want to sell products with false facts, but huuuuge nubers .... (192 kHz > 44.1 kHz).

This are just some spontaneous thoughts that came to my mind. Sorry, if this does not really fit here. ;)
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / Reaper

Tagirijus.de

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Tagirijus, I almost completely agree! The thing about sampling rates is quite complex though, it's basically impossible to figure out without quite some mathematical knowledge, which is what the propaganda is actually enjoying :D.

Grizzellda, let's not fight each other and just agree on disagree! :D. But if you'd like, we can definitely discuss that! You seem to be analogue enjoyer (nice word huh? :D ), so please feel free to prove me wrong! The trouble is, many tried, nobody succeeded...

1) So first the paranoid arrogance stuff :D : (for the record, please don't use that again, because that way you are the arrogant one, but towards the digital stuff). Right now, everyone is taught to use analog stuff, from the beginning everyone is telling you this is the only way, everyone knows it's expensive, so that proves it must be awesome as well, right? ;) And of course the's "pros" would be against me (though you might be surprised how many wouldn't), because most of them have worked decades with it and habbit is stronger than anything... Thousands of people are getting killed every year because of religion, which is nothing but brainwashing & habbit, does it seem logical? Of course not, but that's people. Progress is slow here...

2) Please send me some good tracks - one unprocessed and one processed with some analogue thingy. Every "pro" is saying how awesome it is, yet there's no proof!

3) What makes you think analog cannot be simulated?

4) This is the main thing - what on earth makes you think these things decades old are the end of evolution?? Nothing in the history of man kind has stopped evolving. Every time people say "this is the best" it gets discarded eventually. We are not powering our cars with steam engines, do we? Yet some time ago people thought this is the best thing ever.

So, I'm not saying analogue sounds bad. I'm saying that despite it might sound good, digital sounds better if programmed and used carefuly and eventually analogue will become completely obsolete.

Technically I think the main reason many people are so much sticking with analogue is the "physical feel". Rotating knobs is just different than moving virtual ones. And the lack of possibilities in analog stuff can actually be a positive thing, since most people (even pros) don't know much about the technological aspects, so in the current world filled with brainwashing it is hard to use digital processing well.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Okay, Vojtech, I have absorbed your argument, and will say a few things.

First, If you didn't fancy my comments I'll try to explain with more clarity.

I am a musician with a deep respect for the modern tools that I am using, some of which you create! I'm not a software engineer so don't expect me to argue with you about DSP routines, alright? :D

When I used the term "paranoid arrogance", you might have noticed the emoticons surrounding that ... I know you like to laugh and, well, so do I! In other words I was joking, but would your critics be? See Vojtech, I basically support you & am giving you a different perspective rather than simply saying how great you are...is that okay? In other words I will be buying your Total Bundle as soon as I can afford to! Sure dude, I dig your stuff, don't think otherwise! :)

Okay, I certainly do not think decades old analogue compressors are the final end of audio evolution yet I still feel they are to be deeply respected! You might be surprised how much I agree with your various comments, however what prompted me to get into this was when you boldly stated "analogue is dead." Because by golly Vojtech, analogue is electricity man, how can it be dead, in any capacity, audio or otherwise? I think I understand what you meant of course (plug-ins, emulation...) but don't quite agree.

Now, I'm not saying that I have the expertise to compare the subtleties of digital & analogue signals, only that I have a compelling feeling that it may be simply impossible for a modern computer system to be able to get down to the nitty gritty level of electrons orbiting around the nucleus of an atom, and I have a feeling that this is precisely where those old fashioned compressors & EQ's get their dope sounds from!

Of course nowadays hardly anyone can tell the difference and it's alot of marketing hype as you said. Agreed!

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Hehe ok Grizzellda, thank you and I'm glad we are pretty much on the same page ;). I thought you are one of the blind "analog lovers".

Anyway you are asking the wrong question, same as everyone :). Why would we actually want to simulate analog with every detail? Yes, everyone is doing it, but nobody actually asks this question and definitely not answering it. I have heard so many "arguments" for analog stuff, but all of them are just avoiding an actual answer.

Why analog sounds good?

It does, because there are only a handful of settings you can dial in and engineers spent quite some time making them sound good. If you are manufacturing a blackbox that will cost 3000 USD each, you just have to do it right. While with plugins you not only might have worse design, because it just lets you do that, but you can also dial lots of weird settings, because well it just lets you do that.

But this does NOT mean we should clone analog stuff!

Get inspired, sure. But that's it. These tools cannot interestingly be cloned even by analog, because every piece is different. Analog electronics is just too "inaccurate". Which is also the only reasonable argument "for" analog. But we can simulate inaccuracies. And we often do that in digital distortion for example. But should we do that always? Of course not! People are talking about "character eq" vs. "surgical eq" and stuff like that. What character eq means is just some nonlinear transformations somewhere, which is, well, distortion! So you can always add it if you want. But if you want! With analog, you just have it, period, deal with it...

What's the problem with digital?

Developing digital processors is in a way very simple. Well, it is and isn't. If you want to develop an analog device, the design is very very complex (my dad is an engineer actually). But developing a say "waveshaper" in analog is deadly simple. Well, it is and isn't...

Most developers just don't know much about digital signal processing and the problems about it. I started like one :D. Now I know how braindead I was :D. And if the design is bad, you get noise, aliasing, instabilities... But if you do know, you can do anything. And if you want to make it inaccurate like analog, so be it...
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Saturation is already implemented in your eq with soft saturation. So it can work like analog?!
Other plugins to achieve it are your saturation and distortion plugins for example?!

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Yes ;). Of course, it doesn't simulate any specific analog gear, but it pretty much does the same thing ;).
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Nice to hear from you Vojtech - I'll simply say that I've got some analogue emulation type plug-ins & some super duper digital plug-ins and I'll use them all! But wait, since they all run in a computer, aren't they all...well...digital? Forget it, don't answer that! :lol: :hihi: :wink:

I've been exploring the MMultiband Saturator lately and enjoying it. It could be fun to modulate the various harmonics with those snazzy modulators. See Vojtech, I do realize the flexibility of digital after all! :hihi:

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:D :D Yeah!! And thank you! :love: You see, analog is fine, we can get some inspiration from it, but we must not be blindfolded by our habbits and brainwashing ;). As you can see I'm more on the other extreme - a little anarchistic so to speak :D.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Doin my first mix only with Melda plugs and you know what, it feels good.

The different styles are awesome when mixing at home with pc and on the road with laptop. Using different styles for different monitor inches.
No dongle I can lost. Cubase goodbye, welcome reaper, version 5 rc 1:).
And the best free lifetime upgrades. One day I will change at MtotalBundle!
No more watching at other stuff, reviews, how to use them, it's all wasting time. I feel home! Thanks Vojtech, hope you will do this for a lifetime.

I'll hope for Vojtech everybody will see his genious work and change to the future side.
Free lifetime upgrade is a gift and maybe a mistake of Vojtech, who didn't thought this big at the beginning. :clap:

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Sure, that re-sizable GUI stuff is quite cool, I'll say.

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Thank you folks! :love:

And Svama, I hope I'll do that for a long time, I have too many ideas to implement :D :D
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Hi Vojtech,

One more question about this topic. Do I need to feed your plugins with a special volume level, like these emulations, where you should use -18db.
I would say no, but what's the right answer?

Thanks and greets

Marek

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Hi Marek,

not really, courtesy of digital processing ;). But I'd suggest keeping it below 0dB.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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