KVR Audio

gumbo · Post by **gumbo** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:27 am

If you allow VBR Ogg, why not allow VBR MP3s with an average bitrate of 128kbps?

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:35 am

gumbo wrote:If you allow VBR Ogg, why not allow VBR MP3s with an average bitrate of 128kbps?

That wasn't exactly my point in my last message but . . . yeah. Why not?

WoJ · Post by **WoJ** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:44 am

"And why is constant bit-rate .mp3 the standard pretty much everywhere?"

Its only the same reason that 1.44mb floppydisk drives are (or were) the standard, why not higher capacity disk's? And the reason VHS beat the Betamax when beta was better quality, its only what is mass produced and which technology is marketed and used the most.

If a few of the contestants, or say half of them, would only use .ogg and provide links to codecs and players then people would have no choice but to use .ogg, but is it realy that much better?

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:55 am

WoJ wrote:"And why is constant bit-rate .mp3 the standard pretty much everywhere?"

...its only what is mass produced and which technology is marketed and used the most.

But every mp3 encoder since day one had the option of doing both, so really what's been marketed is both variable and constant.

Seems like back in the late '90's when www.mp3.com was still alive and an actually good service, they required constant rate songs because there was a problem with .mp3 players figuring out the duration of a song using variable rate . . . I remember encoding a variable rate song and noticing that Media Player was grossly wrong about the track's length, though the file size was smaller and the sound quality better. Not sure if that's still an issue, though.

Is it that much better? I've never used .ogg 'cause I haven't seen the burning need to. My old ears can rarely tell the difference between a 128 kbps .mp3 and a 200+ kbps .mp3. Shoot, it's rare that I can tell the difference between a 128 kbps .mp3 and an uncompressed .wav file of the same music. So I seriously doubt I'll notice a difference between an .ogg and an .mp3 file.

Doesn't bother me if .oggs are used in competitions, though. And if I need to, I'll download something so I can listen to them.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:29 am

The reason I've switched to .ogg isn't merely for the sound, but also for the fact that everyone got roped into mp3 and I don't want to be a victim.

All my previous 'free' encoders and decoders are now pay-for-license, and I don't want to pay for a million licenses. I already "own" an mp3 license with Acon Acoustica (the editor I use) but you can't just set up dbPowerAmp to use its codec. Or can you?

Maybe I just don't know how...!

But I'll be danged if I'm buying an encoding license when .ogg is more than suitable for my home archiving and jukeboxing needs.

Greg

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:24 am

rules thread duly tweaked in line with concensus here ...

slainte

rob

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:24 am

Has got nothing to do with the contest rules, but just one further thing in favour of OGG files:
They are *perfect* for online collaborations. Sure, most hosts won't import them natively, so you need to convert them to wave beforehand, but you won't have to deal with trimming files as they just line up perfectly without adding that little bit of silence on conversion MP3s are famous for. OGG is almost sample accurate, so all you need to tell someone you're collaborating with is the beat your files have to be placed at.
That's just an incredible time saviour for such tasks.

The only reason I haven't ditched MP3 entirely yet is that my cars CD player will play MP3 but no OGG.

Btw, it's somewhat amazing that, on a more or less technically oriented board such as KVR, some people still don't seem to be able to playback OGG files...

griels · Post by **griels** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:28 am

Sascha Franck wrote: Btw, it's somewhat amazing that, on a more or less technically oriented board such as KVR, some people still don't seem to be able to playback OGG files...

Got to agree with that Sascha

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:25 am

griels wrote:
Sascha Franck wrote: Btw, it's somewhat amazing that, on a more or less technically oriented board such as KVR, some people still don't seem to be able to playback OGG files...
Got to agree with that Sascha

yup ...

slainte

rob

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:18 pm

I find it odd, too. Also, I agree about the collaboration thing. I think for my next collab, I'm going to try encouraging OGG.

I also know what you mean about the mp3 player. I've archived my entire CD collection to OGG (for backup purposes-- I decided that just having the songs was enough, without making an entire image of the discs; and also for jukebox use!) but then I have to convert to mp3 each time I want to change my portable's selection.

Kind of a hassle, but livable. When I get a new hard drive, I'm going to convert the entire library at once so that it's done and ready to go.

Greg

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:16 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Btw, it's somewhat amazing that, on a more or less technically oriented board such as KVR, some people still don't seem to be able to playback OGG files...

I can't right now (I've downloaded what's needed to play them but haven't installed it yet). I have nothing against .oggs at all, but it's simply that I've had no burning need for them yet. Mp3's do what I need them to for the moment. Their sound quality is good enough for online distribution, their file size is small enough and they are universally supported. Oggs may sound a little better in some cases, be somewhat smaller and, as Sascha points out, have advantages when sharing files for collaborations (which I haven't done online yet). But none of that equates to "I must convert now."

But then, I don't have broadband access, cable TV or a cell phone

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:06 pm

pHz wrote:rules thread duly tweaked in line with concensus here ...

slainte rob

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:16 am

I'm an Ogg lover as well.

I was the first to use ogg as my main submission in a monthly contest as it goes..

But, I've not bothered since largely from the response of 'what the heck is this?'.

I use the 'Media Player Classic' with it's codec, which has the advantage of not using the WMP license

DSP

contest rules and OGG format