ambient/drone lovers, need your help please

[rachmiel]

ambient/drone lovers, i would appreciate your help. does this work for you as a piece ... rather than just a background (one layer) for a piece?

www.rachmiel.org/rach_amb_excerpt.mp3 - first minute (2 mb)
www.rachmiel.org/rach_amb.mp3 - full (15 mb)

if not, what's missing?

thanks,

rachMiel

[rsmus7]

I listened first to the intro and then to the long track

first I like the athmoshpere of the track.

and I think it can work as an ambient track,
but I think there are some sudden changes in, like at 0:50, and they somehow interupt the flow IMHO.
And some frequencies need to be cleaned, they dont sooth my ears.

So IMHO if you get it a bit more fluent and pleasent sounding, it can be a nice piece.

But if you want more the experimental side, just make it a bit more "confused".

[John Vulich]

Nice, this piece reminds me a lot of the drone/phase structered type of work that guys like Vidna Obmana create.

I'm a big fan of artists like Alio Die and Oophoi who tend to use a lot of locked-groove loops of field recordings and found sounds in their work. Fragile little bits that are abstract but evocative. If organic sounds aren't your thing, maybe some tinkly metallic synth sounds or short wave radio interspersed throughout the piece, faded in and out, could add an interesting texture. It's really hard to say without knowing your tastes.

I tend to prefer synthesized instrument sounds to sampled instruments so I find that using field recordings is a nice way to add an organic feel. I find that if you choose the right sounds and process them in interesting ways, to obscure their real origins, it can add a huge sense of mystery. Like an audio movie where you mind trys to associate an activity with the sound you hear.

Stephano Musso (Alio Die) has a lot of short samples from many of his CDs on his site, on the "Discography" page if you're interested...

http://www.aliodie.com/english/english.htm

By the way, I'm a huge fan of your Reaktor ensembles.

[Amberience]

I agree with Rsmus, I only listened to the first 2minutes, but there are definitely some sudden changes that interrupt the flow. Spread the frequency changes out over a longer period of time, and add some extra layers (vocal samples maybe?) to support the change.

When I'm doing drone, I'll often use field recordings, and then try and make a synth patch to match parts of the recordings. Lets say there's a natural water splash in the field recording, I might pitch it down, reverse it, stretch it, and then try and hit the resulting sound with a synth to give it a bit more of a backing.

But at the end of the day... all you're going to get here is conjecture, what you should be asking is, does it work for YOU as a piece or as a layer?

[John Vulich]

I agree with Rsmus, I only listened to the first 2minutes, but there are definitely some sudden changes that interrupt the flow. Spread the frequency changes out over a longer period of time, and add some extra layers (vocal samples maybe?) to support the change.

When I'm doing drone, I'll often use field recordings, and then try and make a synth patch to match parts of the recordings. Lets say there's a natural water splash in the field recording, I might pitch it down, reverse it, stretch it, and then try and hit the resulting sound with a synth to give it a bit more of a backing.

Yeah, I think that it's the pitch bends that seem most intrusive, to me at least. Unless you smear them with a boatload of delay and reverb it tends to sound very synth-like... unless that's your goal.

I think the irony is that though I prefer synths for musical content I try and make them sound as organic as possible so that they don't sound like synths. I don't want them to sound like real world instruments, mind you, just organic.

I usually process the shit out of synth sounds, mainly with convolution (not with reverb impulses though) and stupid amounts of delay, chorus, doublers and reverb.

[Amberience]

Sometimes I'll bounce synths down to tape, and then re-record them, or play them into a room and setup microphones to record them. I've done than in our hallway, gave the synth in question a certain placement.

[rachmiel]

thanks, john and andrew, for the guidance.

john, i'll check out the groups/links. what does "locked-groove loops" mean?

andrew, what i was going for was a very slow melodic line, hence the close frequency changes (notes in a melody). and as for your very excellent advice,

"at the end of the day... all you're going to get here is conjecture, what you should be asking is, does it work for YOU as a piece or as a layer?"

i'm 100% with you ... in fact, trusting your self (and celebrating your uniqueness) is pretty much my deepest belief in music, the arts, life. (and the thing i write about over and over in my magazine articles.) the problem is, i've come to the conclusion over these past months (since i've started to share my music (not just my reaktor ensembles) with "the world" more actively) that i *hear* differently than most people. for better or worse. what most people think of as noise-y, rambling, or too sparse in my music i hear as rich, oceanic, and just right. since i want my music to communicate (speak to people), i feel i have to get a sense of what they expect that they're not necessarily getting. it's like i'm learning a new language, one that the majority of electronic listeners and composers are already fluent at. of course what i'd really love is for them to learn *my* language ... but that's a bit idealistic, ja? ;-)

rachMiel

[Amberience]

Totally get what you mean. As an example, I've an album coming out soon on Intelligent Machinery Productions. Now originally I approached Blue Water Records, but my stuff wasn't really their style - too glitchy I was told (which was a fine compliment I think).

But when I hear that album, I don't really hear glitch, I hear warmth and subtlety. Perhaps we're being a tad egotistical, but bollocks to it huh?

[John Vulich]

john, i'll check out the groups/links. what does "locked-groove loops" mean?

It's a term that I that I believe originated to describe vinyl records that would be modified to skip and create repeating loops. Even though I'm pretty sure that Alio Die uses samples, and not vinyl, his loops often times have little glitches and skips in them that evoke a similar feel to a these locked-groove sounds.

[experimental.crow]

i enjoy how your mind works ...

over the past year , or so , i doubt if i have created anything that did not include
at least one of your .ens creations ...
'pitch-cloud' , 'traum-delay' , and 'moosh-verb' are staples in my arsenal ,
and your recent release , 'lugubriouso' , is nothing short of brilliant ...

the track:

it works ...

as stated previously here , there are a few frequencies that border on the realm of discomfort ,
but not all listeners will be affected the same way by this ...

i find that good ambient work works differently , and depends on the mood , and
environment the listener contributes to the listening experience ...

i find this track to present a flattened perspective ... the compression of a vast expanse into a rendering the size of a matchbook cover ...