Hi fellow musicians,
I need help from people who know what a guitar should sound like. I am a keyboarder and for me to do a guitar song is ambitious to say the least.
It just so happened that I was pointed to the wonderful FreeAmpSE plugin shortly after revisiting one of my "quickly-jot-down-this-idea-loops" (I'm sure many of you have those). I just routed the fluid soundfont's jazz guitar through several presets of FreeAmp and was really impressed. "Hey, I can play guitar!", I thought.
So, I've developed an outline of a song which I think one could call a rock song. It's very non-electronic (except the guitar) and I think I want it to be that way. I have a friend who is working on lyrics, since I definitely want this to have a strong vocal part.
What I am asking of you (who know what a guitar should sound like) is: is this anywhere near convincing? Is it possible without getting a real guitarrist? I am especially worried about the slides. At this point they sound very "midi". How can I improve those? What would you do to give the lines more character?
For easier discussion, the structure of the song is:
Intro
Verse1.1
Verse1.2
Chorus
Verse2.1
Verse2.2
Bridge1
Verse2.1
Verse2.2
Guitar solo
Verse3
Bridge2
Chorus
Verse4
End Tag
Download here: http://jakob.magiera.net/sound/rocky_poppy.mp3
*edit*
the song does not begin with a guitar but a hard epiano!
guitarists: need your opinion and advice on a track
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 462 posts since 4 Jul, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Not super-convincing, not for the least of which reason being that those kinds of licks/riffs from near the beginning of the song don't usually happen in that octave range. 
What's your lowest note for the "guitar" part?
I dunno what to say, but it sounds not really much like a guitar. It's a decent enough framework with which to tell a guitarist, "Here are the riffs and licks, I want the phrasing to be pretty much like this."
The solo starting at 2:58 is a reasonably convincing guitar solo, mind you... there are a few giveaways, but the idea is conveyed.
Greg
What's your lowest note for the "guitar" part?I dunno what to say, but it sounds not really much like a guitar. It's a decent enough framework with which to tell a guitarist, "Here are the riffs and licks, I want the phrasing to be pretty much like this."
The solo starting at 2:58 is a reasonably convincing guitar solo, mind you... there are a few giveaways, but the idea is conveyed.
Greg
Last edited by Lunch Money on Fri May 26, 2006 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 6490 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Rochester, NY
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fateamenabletochange fateamenabletochange https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8029 - KVRAF
- 3059 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from outer rim
really good clean tone on the guitar
I am really wanting the main riff to to go up to the next register,and howl,and it happens at 3.10,but it is too late and and too weak
sorry,I have heard lots of gat players here,and the tone you have mananged is really clean,yet so thick and full,but taking it up to the next register and letting it howl would do the trick
the small amount in the upper register sounds weak,I am not an expert but it needs EQ and prod.
I am really wanting the main riff to to go up to the next register,and howl,and it happens at 3.10,but it is too late and and too weak
sorry,I have heard lots of gat players here,and the tone you have mananged is really clean,yet so thick and full,but taking it up to the next register and letting it howl would do the trick
the small amount in the upper register sounds weak,I am not an expert but it needs EQ and prod.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 462 posts since 4 Jul, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
I think there has been a bit of a misunderstanding: the foundational chords (what starts the song) are a "suitcase piano" sound and not meant to be a guitar sound.
But you are right, the lowest note is a D. I know a guitar cant play that. I did try transposing the song 1 step up, but it just didnt sound right anymore.
Of course, if any of you guitarists here likes this song and would like to collab with me, gimme a shout!
But you are right, the lowest note is a D. I know a guitar cant play that. I did try transposing the song 1 step up, but it just didnt sound right anymore.
Of course, if any of you guitarists here likes this song and would like to collab with me, gimme a shout!
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oddbods finger oddbods finger https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=55496
- KVRian
- 779 posts since 21 Jan, 2005 from The Vale of Eden
Okay, the guitar being so up front and loud (too loud IMO) in the mix it's not really convincing.
If it were more in the background it wouldn't be so obvious.
The notes sound too perfectly plucked, of similar strength and quite quantized...little in the way of nuance here.
It's the bends so blatently done with by pitch wheel though that particularly give it away!
If it were more in the background it wouldn't be so obvious.
The notes sound too perfectly plucked, of similar strength and quite quantized...little in the way of nuance here.
It's the bends so blatently done with by pitch wheel though that particularly give it away!
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- KVRist
- 87 posts since 30 Oct, 2005 from sauble beach ont.
This is a cool outline and could definately be a great song
really dig that bassy riff, if a bit over powering in spots, but super arrangement,
well done, lots of possibillities
really dig that bassy riff, if a bit over powering in spots, but super arrangement,
well done, lots of possibillities
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I'm always interested in doing a collab, but then I don't seem to find enough time.
If the lowest note is a D, then you're still in guitar territory, though. Many many many guitarists use a "dropped D" tuning. It seemed even lower than that, but I figure it's just an illusion of the 'tone' of the guitar.
Greg
If the lowest note is a D, then you're still in guitar territory, though. Many many many guitarists use a "dropped D" tuning. It seemed even lower than that, but I figure it's just an illusion of the 'tone' of the guitar.
Greg
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 462 posts since 4 Jul, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
Cool, Greg! I also struggle with time constraints, but I'm sure we can work something out. Meanwhile, you can practice your parts Of course they are adjustable (esp. the solo). What would help you most to learn them? Midi file? Chords?
Of course they are adjustable (esp. the solo). What would help you most to learn them? Midi file? Chords?-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 462 posts since 4 Jul, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
Do you mean all of them or especially the clean sounding one. I think you are right about the clean sounding one, it's pushing it a bit. Maybe a bit less bass eq on that should help.oddbods finger wrote:Okay, the guitar being so up front and loud (too loud IMO) in the mix it's not really convincing.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
jakob, any and all of the above are always helpful, though I've done a lot with less. The Chords + the MIDI file should be plenty, though. If you happen to know the key already, that'd be handy so that I don't have to then work it out based on the chords or the notes. For many people it wouldn't be a chore, but I hate figuring out key.
Greg
Greg
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- KVRian
- 556 posts since 28 Dec, 2004
Jakob, one of the most difficult characteristics of a guitar to convey via midi is the subtle tonalities of notes played at various positions on a guitar neck. For example, the lowest D (in standard tuning) can be played on three different strings, each with a different quality. I state this because I think you've done a good job at simulating "single string" melodies, but some of limitations of the instrument/samples are revealed when trying to emulate other guitar techniques, such as your bends.
Many have given you some good suggestions. The only addition I can offer is to try adding a bit of reverb to the guitar track and backing off on the presence and/or rolling off some of the high mids to give it a more muted tone that may seem more "realistic.'
The arrangement is solid and would provide as a perfect guide to a guitarist, who in turn could easily replace the track with the real thing.
Many have given you some good suggestions. The only addition I can offer is to try adding a bit of reverb to the guitar track and backing off on the presence and/or rolling off some of the high mids to give it a more muted tone that may seem more "realistic.'
The arrangement is solid and would provide as a perfect guide to a guitarist, who in turn could easily replace the track with the real thing.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 462 posts since 4 Jul, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
thanks for all the feedback people! I have "recruited" Lunch money and Mauvehead to play the parts for me, which I am really excited about. Stay tuned for some real guitar sound coming soon to a loudspeaker near you!
