KVR Audio

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:53 pm

Kriminal wrote:Arent guitars fake instruments anyway

Only if you don't have enough talent to play one.

Otherwise a guitar is a guitar.

Devon

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:57 pm

I completely disagree. There are sooooo many nuances about playing a guitar that it would require like 16 different sampled instruments trading off from one note to another & you STILL woldn't nail it realistically. I would like nothing more than to be able to pull it off, as getting back behind strings represents a very expensive investment for me in audio interface, mixer, & guitar, of which right now I have none.

If there were a way to get fret buzz with harmonincs with dive bombs with muting, with powerchords with off tuning with sympathetic resonance with misplaced fretting with pick location with dragging across the bridge ala Randy Rhodes with just plain random ugliness with pick dragging up & down a fret with hard tremolo bends till the strings start farting then maybe I'd say yeah.

But definately not.

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:58 pm

t-willy wrote:just out of curiousity Andreas, did this come about from some comments made in the metel contest gossip?

Not only, t-willy, also from other reviews in the cafe in the past.

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:02 pm

sickle666 wrote:If there were a way to get fret buzz with harmonincs with dive bombs with muting, with powerchords with off tuning with sympathetic resonance with misplaced fretting with pick location with dragging across the bridge ala Randy Rhodes with just plain random ugliness with pick dragging up & down a fret with hard tremolo bends till the strings start farting ...

t-willy · Post by **t-willy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:22 pm

AndreasE wrote: What I want to say: I think it isn´t really necessary to distinguish here between fake and real guitars. Otherwise we would have to distinguish also between fake and real synthesizers, basses, drums, etc....

What are your opinions?

hey Andreas,

Personally, i'm very biased for obvious reasons. all of my music is written on guitar and played with guitar. i spend a lot of time mixing and trying to get a good guitar sound using a real guitar. so for me when someone uses a VST to emulate a guitar sound i'll immediately jump on it and say i don't like it. i'm strictly about the "sound" though. i won't ever deny someone's ability to write a good composition using a VST guitar. i take a lot of pride in trying to get a good guitar sound for the tunes I write which I consider hard rock/heavy metal - again, this is were my bias comes from.

you do bring up an interesting point about other instruments though. i'm curious as to some other musicians who play other instruments - fitch for instance, i wonder what she thinks about some cello vsts?

lates

t-willy

tk421 · Post by **tk421** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:34 pm

This is starting to remind me of the Belgian surrealist Magritte's painting of a pipe with the caption "This is not a pipe." Once you record a guitar and put it on a cd is it a guitar anymore? Whooah!

I think the problem is using the word "fake" instead od saying sample or guitar sim or synth. I don't play guitar, but wanted something with the same power and sound in my songs. I discovered Slayer. I am not trying to fool anyone into believing its a guitar, but I like the big, distorted, heavy sounds it can make.

griels · Post by **griels** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:58 pm

It's not a proper instrument unless it's got keys anyway:

http://trio.harmony-central.com/ramgen/ ... /Keytar.rm

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:02 pm

DevonB wrote:
Kriminal wrote:Arent guitars fake instruments anyway
Only if you don't have enough talent to play one. Otherwise a guitar is a guitar.

Devon

I can play, but i choose not too

I can also play drums (mediocre) and comb and paper

t-willy · Post by **t-willy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:03 pm

good god griels. i bet that f**ker weighs a ton!!

lates

t-willy

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:11 pm

that's f**king crazy..I wonder how many of those he has sold..

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:26 pm

One thing I must say here is that I have been extremely pleased to hear all the tracks with fantastci soloing here @ KvR.

I have easliy heard more solos in here since I joined than I have heard in commercial releases over the last 7-8 years.

Great to see that art is till alive & kicking, whether it comes from a $3,000 Les Paul or reFX's Slayer.

Don't stop either way!

t-willy · Post by **t-willy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:17 pm

sickle666 wrote:One thing I must say here is that I have been extremely pleased to hear all the tracks with fantastci soloing here @ KvR.

I have easliy heard more solos in here since I joined than I have heard in commercial releases over the last 7-8 years.

Great to see that art is till alive & kicking, whether it comes from a $3,000 Les Paul or reFX's Slayer.

Don't stop either way!

absofuckinlutely agree! like i said, i'm picky about the sounds, but not the composition!

lates

t-willy

eivind · Post by **eivind** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:55 am

Lunch Money wrote:I've heard only one 'fake' solo that was half-way convincing, on a collab track over at the CM/FM forum. The guitar was played/programmed by Eivind, and he used aftertouch effects to simulate feedback where applicable.

If you weren't listening for it, you didn't know. Of course, as soon as you were aware (or if I had listened to it a few times) it was clear, but it was a damned good job.

Greg

I was googleing some stuff when my eye caught this thread. Old as it is...

but even so - I don't think of "fake" guitars as something that necessarily is a substitute of a guitar... it's just something I like to do because I can.

Playing a nice sound is always refreshing. It really doesn't have to sound as a "REAL" guitar, but it plays a part a guitar under certain circumstances also could do.

As for authenticity... there's so many ways of playing a guitar... my personal fav is distorted steel guitar... (Gilmour and Howe springs to mind) and that's nothing like a fretted style.

However - if anybody's interested in hearing what LunchMoney is talking about the collab-tune is still available as an example:

http://home.online.no/~t-kri-se/ThisIsForReal_1.mp3

cheers!

Eivind

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:02 am

See, that's the interesting thing about sampling.

If you have a live guitar track, is that fake?

If you take that guitar track and delete the last 30 seconds, is that fake?

If you extract 2 bars from the guitar track, is it fake now?

If you extract a note from the guitar track, is that fake?

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:39 am

Sicklecell666 wrote: If there were a way to get fret buzz with harmonincs with dive bombs with muting, with powerchords with off tuning with sympathetic resonance with misplaced fretting with pick location with dragging across the bridge ala Randy Rhodes with just plain random ugliness with pick dragging up & down a fret with hard tremolo bends till the strings start farting then maybe I'd say yeah.

can you imagine programming MIDI parts for a multisample that complex?

quicker to learn to play guitar IMO

Fake guitars?