Please educate me on these CPUs

[dsan@mail.com]

Fine is a relative term, Mark. What may be ok for one may be irrelevant to another.

Any of those boards will suffice, and one with less features/specs may be quite sufficient for your needs.

My advice will be to spec them out, determine what you need and what you can afford. These two criteria tend to compliment each other.

If it helps any, it's difficult to go wrong with modern components. There's too much competition. The challenge will be to figure out what it is in design and features that you need; not so much "which is better". They're all pretty much the same.

Personally I try to find the most features I can afford. An audio computer really doesn't need the most expensive hardware to function quite well. Not like a gaming rig.

Where you really do not want to skimp is in the audio components. Like the audio interface, or monitors, etc.

HTH
dsan

[fluffy_little_something]

Do people use the stock cooling systems of boxed processors?
I hear again and again that those suck, for instance that they are too loud and don't cool well.
However, I am not so sure about that anymore. I mean, Intel and AMD know that people might actually use those coolers for years to come, so overheating might lead to warranty-related costs.
I have always used the stock coolers so far, and none has ever died on me, nor any CPU.
In terms of noise, I noticed that by default the Bios is often set to the maximum target fan speed for whatever reason. But as soon as I set it to minimum, I don't know if the computer is running or not because it is so quiet. And it is cool, seldom above 40°C, despite running the CPU at maximum performance under the Windows energy thingy.

[dsan@mail.com]

I have used both the stock fan and 3rd party coolers in my rigs. I don't over clock so the stock fans tend to be sufficient for my needs.

But this also depends on other factors. Such as the case design. Newer case designs tend to be more air flow friendly.

If noise is a consideration in the build, or in the case of over clocking, then yes, I would recommend something like the Noctua designs, or possibly a water cooling system. I'm not sure I trust these yet though, although there are many that swear by them.

Cheers!
dsan

[fluffy_little_something]

The top AMD CPU ships with a stock water cooling system But I am not convinced, either, water in the computer sounds like trouble, in my mind I already see water leaking, puddles forming, and smoke rising

[VitaminD]

AMD CPUs still tend to draw more power and run hotter..

I still think an i7-6700 should be at least under consideration in your list..

[cron]

Do people use the stock cooling systems of boxed processors?
I hear again and again that those suck, for instance that they are too loud and don't cool well.
However, I am not so sure about that anymore. I mean, Intel and AMD know that people might actually use those coolers for years to come, so overheating might lead to warranty-related costs.
I have always used the stock coolers so far, and none has ever died on me, nor any CPU.
In terms of noise, I noticed that by default the Bios is often set to the maximum target fan speed for whatever reason. But as soon as I set it to minimum, I don't know if the computer is running or not because it is so quiet. And it is cool, seldom above 40°C, despite running the CPU at maximum performance under the Windows energy thingy.

FWIW I use a cooler only a little smaller than my head and it's whisper quiet at 4.5 gHz under maximum load (3rd gen i5).

As for which motherboard the original poster goes for, I'd look for overclocking flexibility. With the K chips, overclocking is a bit of a misnomer in most cases. I've achieved 4.5 gHz without exceeding Intel's specification for the chip, so there's an argument to be made that I'm not really overclocking at all. The clock speed at which the K chips roll off the production line is better thought of as a drastic underclock. They have to be set at something to begin with after all. Being unable to reach a solid, error-free 4 gHz on stock cooling and stock voltages is rare on my particular processor for instance (can't vouch for other processors in the K line, but I believe it's a similar deal). Even the stock cooling feels like way overkill if you're using a K series chip as it comes from the factory.

Temperatures are fine for me, but squeezing more speed out of this chip would involve setting voltages above Intel's maximum specification for the chip, and I'd rather not overclock.

[incubus]

A 50 buck Phantek fan is dead silent too, easier to install, and as you can see costs much less.

@CPU's: The tl/dr thing isn't a good idea. You should read this at least:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=450149

The reason is that there is some techy stuff you should at the least be aware of. I thought hz was the only factor too. Not sure I understand why that would matter for us shleppers who just want to use the computer but it's worth noting.

@Which to get: Be very careful unless you just have cray cray cash to move around. Like real estate, the "get the best you can" motto isn't really applicable anymore. I have two computers. One is a first gen i7 860. One is a haswell 4770k. Frankly, there isn't a shitload of performance diff. MOBO's could be part of it maybe, but it's not the mind-blowing performance increase I was hoping for. It's better, but only about maybe 15%.

Not sure about cores vs GHZ these days. Logically, more physical cores should be better than less cores with a higher GHZ but daws all handle multi cores differently. In reason for example really on the physical cores matter.

I'll try to break this down:

@ableton, largely un-noticed here. I was able to get gobs of tracks and fx. The key is that abes use that weird "we'll max out the first core and then go from there" mentality which freaked me out at first. Until you get into 50 tracks and a ton of FX and it's about the same Load a plug, 40% CPU (shock) Load another 40 plugs, 40% CPU. Please don't ask me to explain why, simply giving you real-world experience.

@"benchmark says" : Nope! Not in real-world daw use. I wish, I'd have as crazy a computer speed as needed.

The i7 870 is NOT the huge bottle neck. Hard drive speed can be (an evo 850 will be a fab update) BUT, since the 5820 has two more physical cores, that can be a significant update......but again, different hosts handle things differently.

If you search this topic on 10 sites, you'll get 10 different sets of answers. Live is a strange beast because anything desktop i7 up you should get pretty scary-good results. Of course, that's just on paper

[Kaine]

Anyway: Asus X99-A - is it fine for my needs?

As other people have indicated, go for the one that has the features that match your requirements. All the boards are based around the same core chipset with other features bolted on. The only thing I will note is that the X99-A is a bit light on metalwork for cooling and I find they don't overclock as well as the rest of the range, for that I much prefer the Pro or Deluxe editions. If your not overclocking, just get the A if it has the features you need.

Just a note on watercooling, I appear to be one of the few that doesn't rate them in the slightest. All your doing is moving the heat from the CPU to the edge of the case and then using a higher speed fan, to push more air through tighter holes, right where the noise can escape from. That and pump noise tends to develop over the life cycle of a closed cooler loop.

I prefer to work with tower coolers on the CPU with large fans (Thermalright Archons or Bequiet Dark Rock 3's) that can be run slowly, along with a couple of larger (140mm or above) case giving a push/pull configuration. The water coolers will get you a maybe a few extra Mhz if your overclocking where as for instance if it drops an overclock on air around 4.6, you may get 4.7 on water cooling, but the extra voltage you need to force through the chip I tend to find leaves it not as stable as I'd like in most cases although YMMV.

[Cimbasso]

AMD CPUs still tend to draw more power and run hotter..

I still think an i7-6700 should be at least under consideration in your list..

i7-6700k is not a big improvement even compared to i7-4790k (great CPU, btw).

For professional use, 5xxx CPUs are more suitable. I'd also stay away from AMD for professional audio use if you can afford Intel (had both).

[Otherworldly]

I would go for Intel 6 Core: 5820K or 5930K and X99 Deluxe M/board. Large tower case. 500GB SSD (Programs), 1TB H/Drive (Audio), 1TB H/Drive (Video). But I'm still undecided regarding graphic cards.... leaning towards the GTX 760 specifically for Vue Studio, Poser and NLE software (music video production).

[Kaine]

Video editing software tends to be CPU heavy, with some specific rendering tasks being off loaded to the GFX card. I've not looked into the software your using, but the question is "does it do Open GL or CUDA accleration"?

If so higher end cards may prove of benefit, otherwise personally I'd be going for a 750TI passive edition instead.

[Otherworldly]

Video editing software tends to be CPU heavy, with some specific rendering tasks being off loaded to the GFX card. I've not looked into the software your using, but the question is "does it do Open GL or CUDA accleration"?

If so higher end cards may prove of benefit, otherwise personally I'd be going for a 750TI passive edition instead.

Thanks for chiming in

Wow, I just received an Email notifying me about the new Poser 11 Pro, and thought I also check out Vue Studio, also updated this year.

I have further doubts with both those cards: 760, 750 Ti.
Minimum 2GB is required (I prefer 4GB) for final rendering CUDA. Open GL for real-time advance preview. I think anything less might seriously compromise my workflow.

I'm on the hunt for a higher end card, passive (silent) for under $600 is preferred but I'm not sure I'll find the right one, suggestions?

Cubase and Live are my main go-to Hosts (DAWs). I'll read up on specifics about graphic cards to rule out any potential issues (Cubase)!

Most graphic cards come with fans, but I should be able to run silent mode (constant low-speed) and install an addition tower case fan (large, silent-mode), I think that might work. Otherwise I could install a smoke alarm and have a fire extinguisher readily available

Seriously, I intend to have temperature monitoring of critical components.

[Kaine]

750TI's are the highest end passives I've seen, and given the power draw of higher models, I'd be suprised to see anything crop up above that in the range as the power draws creep up quite a bit (well, I'd expect a passive 950 at some point).

The common thing these days is skip the low powered options (which would depend on a certain amount of underclocking if you don't want to worry about cooling) and Nvidia now builds the option for manufactuers to set auto-control levels in the GPU bios. A number of cards you'll see now won't spin up until they hit a pre-determined system temp and only then does the fan start up and it begins to ramp. That's ideal for you, as you shouldn't be using any GPU whilst in Cubase really.

Check out the following ranges:

Asus Strix
MSI Twin Frozer
Gigabyte Windforce

Those cover cards from the 7 and 9 series (770/780/970/980). PNY and a few other firms I'm aware of do similar models across various ranges (I mention PNY because I noted one of their cards has a higher fan ramp up starting point), but the three above keep their naming convention stright forward and constant from generation to generation.

A lot of the temp monitoring programs poll the fans constantly, which can cause DPC spike and audio glitching. As long as you invest in a good CPU cooler and large inlet and outlet fan, you really shouldn't have any issues these days.

[rod_zero]

IMHO experience aftermarket CPU coolers are not required but they do really cool far better than the stock, as much as 50°.

I had an i5 760 which was sitting at 70° while idle and up to 99° with the stuck cooler, changed to a zalman CNPS9500 and it went down 35° idle and 60° at full.

There are quiet CPU coolers like Noctua.Water cooling is maintenance heavy too and not all solutions are silent, some are quite noisy.

If you want a silent computer buy a case for that task, antec performance series is excelent for this http://store.antec.com/performance-series/

I just built a new pc desktop this weekend, I went for a 4790k so I could save on the MOBO and RAm, I am super happy with the performance. I went with a cheap mini ITX MOBO, since I really just need one PCIe lane for the GPU and I would only put 16gb of RAM.

[Otherworldly]

Thanks Kline, great post.

I made an error, the correction is: 4GB minimum for Graphics required.

My studio consist of two separate workstations:

After searching around like a lost kangaroo in NYCity I kept being drawn to the 950 (4GB) cards and I'm somewhat disappointed, I think the MSI might do a good job, looks solid enough. As you said and I agree, I expect a 'passive' version at some point. I might wait it out a bit however, I have also considered two system builds, one for Audio (silent) and the other for high-end Graphics/Video (semi- silent = okay), my DVD player probably makes more noise lol.

Regarding temperature monitoring: I have an 'older' computer setup for ITB-Vsti and audio, Abit IP35Pro M/board, Q6600 CPU o/c to 3.4Ghz, 2GB Ram, 3 Sata Seagate H/drives. ATi Radeon (low-end graphics). Fan set to constant low-speed (quiet as a mouse), temperature monitoring has caused no DPC Spikes, stays cool, rock solid performance. This is a much older system built on the Abit IP35Pro M/board. I don't push the round-trip latency levels too much, though definitely still usable. Having excellent drivers (audio/midi interface) certainly helps....

Typical project on that old beauty consists mostly of virtual instruments (48 Tracks). CPU steady at 20 to 30% running multiple instances of processors; mixdown + 12 addition tracks for vocals or whatever. System remains solid, no issues at all. However, understandably, the low-end passive Radeon will not allow me to do live preview in Poser 10 Pro, I have to render then view results. Poser was an after thought, that old AbitIP35Pro with Q6600 was primarily meant for audio and does that really well. But I agree with your advise (caution) regarding temperature monitor and DPC spikes (audio/glitches), I may not be so lucky this time round.

+1 to inlet/outlet fans.

I certainly won't be over-clocking, but slightly under-clocking the graphics? Interesting, I haven't considered that, I suppose I'll have to weigh in performance (workflow) requirements before proceeding.

Basically I will need to upgrade and expand my pro audio suite to include graphics and video production (either in one system or two separate workstations). I'll wait a bit, see what happens. I have a label that is offering me an interesting deal, I think 2016 might be a good year. Hope it's a good one for you. Cheers!


Hi Rod,

My old system is housed in an Antec, I really like them. I went for the larger tower because I like plenty of space to work in especially for regular maintenance. All my systems have 3 h/drives, I'll also be wanting 3 removable (or mobile) Sata h/drive bays.

The 4790k is a great CPU, it was my initial choice, but I'm going for the X99 Deluxe M/board, unfortunately the 4790k is not compatible, therefore either 5820K or 5930K. And definitely up the Ram to a minimum of 32GB (X99 will accept 128GB Ram). Some programs definitely benefit from extra Ram, I want to make sure I'm prepared for the unexpected (future)

All the best