AMD's a-comin!!!... and Intel's been a-dunnin!!

[nIGhT-SoN]

I stand 100% behind my statement.

Your network server is running *one* task.
Your mail server is running *one* task.
Your web server is running *one* task.

Yes, it's capable of doing what needs to be done for networking. It's built for that.

*But*, for the average user who wants to switch between tasks *and* run the software that they want (as opposed to the "equivalent"), it's not going to happen.

FYI - I run plenty of open source software on Windows. I wouldn't bother trying to make music with the few apps that are available for Linux. It's kludgey, and more work than it's worth.

Sorry but network server is not 1 task, neither web, or mail. There are many requests at the same time, especially for web. Linux is the best at multi tasking and also it becomes mainstream, many gamers are switching or looking to switch to Linux. Steam, the most popular game selling platform is working on Steam OS which is Linux based for gamers.

The problem with Linux for music production is that developers are not interested in developing their plugins for this platform and mostly because there are few people that use it. Soon that will change.

Linux is way better than Windows or Mac OS in any aspect, the problem is that we are are used to Windows/Mac OS and we expect things to work in a certain way, also our daily apps, most of them don't have a Linux version or a very good alternative. Why Linux it's better? Because it's open source and this brings the best of everything. If you are good at programming and you want to contribute you can do it, anyone can. I would switch to Linux today if I could do 90% of the things I do on Windows, no looking back.

[Burillo]

Sorry but network server is not 1 task, neither web, or mail. There are many requests at the same time, especially for web. Linux is the best at multi tasking and also it becomes mainstream, many gamers are switching or looking to switch to Linux. Steam, the most popular game selling platform is working on Steam OS which is Linux based for gamers.

if by "many gamers switching to Linux" you mean "Steam Linux stats are slowly declining, hovering at 0.75%" (source) then yes, you appear to be correct, lol.

Linux is way better than Windows or Mac OS in any aspect, the problem is that we are are used to Windows/Mac OS and we expect things to work in a certain way, also our daily apps, most of them don't have a Linux version or a very good alternative.

i don't expect things "to work in a certain way". i expect them to work, period. "don't have a Linux version" or "no good alternatives" does not meet my definition of "working".

Why Linux it's better? Because it's open source and this brings the best of everything. If you are good at programming and you want to contribute you can do it, anyone can. I would switch to Linux today if I could do 90% of the things I do on Windows, no looking back.

and herein lies the problem. i would switch to Linux too, if i actually could do all the things i do on Windows, preferably with the same amount of effort. that, however, is a pipe dream at this point, and isn't likely to change any time soon.

[fluffy_little_something]

What other areas (apart from music) are there where Linux can't replace Windows for the normal user?
From what I have read so far, it does fine at surfing, mailing, multimedia playback, chatting, and office.
That pretty much covers all I do on my computer, except for making music, unfortunately.

[legendCNCD]

Linux is way better than Windows or Mac OS in any aspect

..aaaand there goes the credibility.

[Burillo]

What other areas (apart from music) are there where Linux can't replace Windows for the normal user?
From what I have read so far, it does fine at surfing, mailing, multimedia playback, chatting, and office.
That pretty much covers all I do on my computer, except for making music, unfortunately.

not for me it doesn't. multimedia playback is very flaky, especially anything that involves either flash or other browser plugins. not Linux's fault, but still. music players are either minimalistic spreadsheet players, fixed-function stuff like Banshee, or bloatware like Amarok. nothing like e.g. MediaMonkey exists on Linux.

office... MS Office 2013 works way better and is way more convenient than LibreOffice (although i haven't tried their new ribbon interface), and LO's icons just look ugly and 90's glossy garbage (not the cool Windows 7-style glossy, but bad GNOME glossy). mail clients - they pretty much all suck, none of them are half as good as Outlook (which has its own issues, but is much more polished). thunderbird is abandonware and is buggy, others are either bad from usability perspective, or are flakey and unfinished (like qmail or whatever that Qt-based new IMAP client is named).

gaming - already covered, very small amount of games work, and GPU drivers are crap.

image editors... i can tell you a whole tale, but basically, they all suck and will suck until the end of time, because image processing libraries they rely on work only with regular files - which means you can't directly work with stuff located on network drives in any photo album manager/image editing app like digiKam unless you mount those drives, which brings its own set of problems with long shutdown times, long startup times and general unreliability because there's no way to tell Linux that this drive maybe is available when i try to access it - it either mounts it and unmounting it is a pain, or it fails to mount it and never tries again.

i can go on and on, but i think you get the picture - the moment you're trying to do something moderately complex it all falls apart.

[kmonkey]

I stand 100% behind my statement.

Your network server is running *one* task.
Your mail server is running *one* task.
Your web server is running *one* task.

Yes, it's capable of doing what needs to be done for networking. It's built for that.

*But*, for the average user who wants to switch between tasks *and* run the software that they want (as opposed to the "equivalent"), it's not going to happen.

FYI - I run plenty of open source software on Windows. I wouldn't bother trying to make music with the few apps that are available for Linux. It's kludgey, and more work than it's worth.

Sorry i can't do anything then to laugh at your and other people statements when it comes to linux. You clearly have ZERO experience with Linux and for sure does not know what you are talking about. I have web hosting company ATM i am having 40 servers Linux + Windows under my administration.

I am going to mark your words and show it in another forum because what you are saying is a comedy. And i can assure you my mail server is not one task LOL. What a comedy. Mail server let alone is running Postfix, Milter, Dovecot on top of multiple multitask actions and services responsible for your mail to travel across the world. This alone tell me you have zero experience on what you talk about and your 100% is huge facepalm.

This is what you get when a person think he know Linux because he saw it 20 years ago. He is using Apple or Win and feel he can say (after using google for 5 minutes on learning linux.) a word about linux being inferior Hahaha omg.

Around 60 days ago i was at university where they are calculating human genomes and infrastructure running this task and empowering hardware is built on RedHat Linux.

Let me be clear i am not trying to derail thread. I am very excited about Ryzen. And i have zero emotions for Linux, Apple or Win10. I use what works for me. I just want to point out that some of you are completely spreading false informations just because you have as a matter of fact zero experience and you saw something 20 years ago or you briefly tried some stupid linux version which run from your usb.

Linux is as good as person making applications for it. So is Windows or Apple. Only difference is Linux is giving you free hands on making your wildest dreams. Windows or Apple is not offering you that freedom or scalability. End of story.

About decade and something Linux stopped to be what you think it used to be (i miss that time). Stop talking nonsense about Linux please. You are just making yourself looking funny. There is a world outside Win or Apple. You use it on daily basis you just simply don't know it.

Talk about Ryzen. Less comedy.

[fluffy_little_something]

Abandonware? I still get updates for Thunderbird.

Linux often comes with the VLC player, which is not bad at all. I have it on my Windows computer as well and I suppose it is the same as the Linux version.

I don't really care about the looks of buttons in Office software. I am already happy when it does what it is supposed to do. I have OpenOffice on my Windows pc, it works very well, even opens documents that Word doesn't open.

I can't say anything about games, as I never play.

[kmonkey]

Linux is way better than Windows or Mac OS in any aspect

..aaaand there goes the credibility.

It's what you get (a comedy) when people are so utterly blind that they don't even realize something they use 90% of their time is running by some version of linux.

But they think only win and apple exist and everything else is inferior.

I think dude from Monty Python tried to explain it by saying that some people are so stupid that they can't even get it through their perception and they simply don't realize that there is a world of options outside their tunnel vision.

So if you try to explain them something they will argue simply because they don't even understand what you are talking about.

Simply: explaining - waste of time

[Burillo]

kmonkey, you're confusing your workloads a bit here.

running a mail server, or computational matrix, these are all complex, highly specialized and highly technical tasks that don't even need a GUI. Linux excels in those. i have a Linux VPS of my own, a FreeBSD server at home, i develop for Linux for a living. i know what it can do, and i know its strengths.

however, running software for end users is not Linux's strength. not by a mile. it's a great tinkering environment - meaning, it's good for technical tasks, having to do with setting up infrastructure and providing various services. you can create mind blowing automation, run all sorts of services on it, do various networking tasks like proxying/firewalling/load-balancing/whatever, no one disputes that. that's just not what an average user is interested in.

yes, Linux can run on anything from embedded systems and up to supercomputers, so what? how does that fact help me, the end user? i'm not interested in running a weather simulation, i want a tool to make music that is easy to use. and this is where Linux is sorely lacking. it has all the potential of being a great platform, no one says Linux is incapable of doing these things. however, the fact is, it can't do it. not at the moment. and no amount of "but servers!" hand waving will change that fact. that's a straw man.

[Dominus]

*snip*

Sorry i can't do anything then to laugh at your and other people statements when it comes to linux.
This is what you get when a person think he know Linux because he saw it 20 years ago.
He is using Apple or Win and feel he can say (after using google for 5 minutes on learning linux.) a word about linux being inferior Hahaha omg.

*snip*

No. Read my original statement. Keep reading it until you either:

A - Stop deliberately misunderstanding what I said
B - Join my ignore list because you just want to argue

I *first* saw it 20+ years ago. (My best friend tried it out for a bit on his 386.)

I've used every iteration of Windows from 3.0 (except for ME and Vista) until 7.
I ran Mac OS 7-X.7
I ran OS/2 2.1 and Warp
I've used a number of Linux distros over the years.
I worked with Novell, Windows, and Unix networks.

Windows 7 does everything I want to do, without hassle.
OSX did most of what I needed, but I missed a lot of the free plugins.

I've been involved with computers for 25 years now. I'm *tired* of tinkering. I just want things to work. I've got better things to do with my life.

[Dominus]

double

[incubus]

[nIGhT-SoN]

if by "many gamers switching to Linux" you mean "Steam Linux stats are slowly declining, hovering at 0.75%" (source) then yes, you appear to be correct, lol.

There are 125 pages of linux titles on steam right now: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?s ... 8&os=linux tell me how many were 3-4 years ago. This is because many people moved to Linux and many more are looking on doing so to. Right now Steam has to finish it's OS and we'll see more people switching.

i don't expect things "to work in a certain way". i expect them to work, period. "don't have a Linux version" or "no good alternatives" does not meet my definition of "working".

Sorry for your bad experience, but I've tried Ubuntu and Mint and they both worked flawless out of the box, no need for tinkering.

and herein lies the problem. i would switch to Linux too, if i actually could do all the things i do on Windows, preferably with the same amount of effort. that, however, is a pipe dream at this point, and isn't likely to change any time soon.

Depends on what you mean by problem, but looking on how Microsoft and Apple are going towards telemetry stuff and taking people's data, if they keep doing that I wouldn't say it's a pipe dream at all, by contrary. This is why there is a Steam OS, because of how Microsoft treated game developers and gaming industry. Microsoft is trying to fix it with DirectX 12, but it's quite late and developers already know that it will happen again so they move on Vulkan which works on all platforms including Linux.

..aaaand there goes the credibility.

Keep using Windows, it's really made for people like you, especially Windows 10.

[fluffy_little_something]

With Microsoft's blacklisting of processors it seems one never knows whether one's computer will still be covered the next day. Even a previous-generation AMD processor has made it onto that blacklist:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/318397 ... essor.html

I think I will get an affordable Linux notebook for work and online stuff, and build an offline W7 PC for music. The latter will be based not on Ryzen, but the FX-8370, whose price is finally dropping (160 euros at the moment, with the silent cooler included, that's 40 euros less than a month ago). I will patch it to the latest state before W7 support ends in January 2020, and then take it offline for the next 5 years or so. By then I might be dead, anyway

[Dominus]

I think I will get an affordable Linux notebook for work and online stuff, and build an offline W7 PC for music. The latter will be based not on Ryzen, but the FX-8370, whose price is finally dropping (160 euros at the moment, with the silent cooler included, that's 40 euros less than a month ago). I will patch it to the latest state before W7 support ends in January 2020, and then take it offline for the next 5 years or so. By then I might be dead, anyway

Seriously, skip that. Just go with an Intel. Any current i5 will beat that AMD, and if you're going to use it for 7+ years, you may as well invest another $200 (over the cost of the AMD) and get a good i7.

Don't buy an AMD just to buy an AMD.