MusicDevelopments

pinki · Post by **pinki** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:49 am

I'm curious to know how this powerful program handles suspensions and non-harmonic tones. They are such a useful way of making static music phrases into sequences.

On a basic level, If I drag a RC phrase right into another chord area, it will adjust automatically to that chord. It would be nice if it didn't, as this would make a crude way of making a sequence. Any thoughts on this? Or are there more sophisticated ways of making sequence in RC.

(I'm using the word 'sequence' as in Baroque style sequences, though it can be applied more generally to describe the tying over of a harmonic note into a new harmony causing it to become dissonant, then to be resolved normally by a downward step)

pinki · Post by **pinki** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:17 am

Ah I can see the inspector for generators allows a selection between 'Chordal-Scales' which can introduce non-harmonic tones from the current scale. that's good. So suspensions anyone?

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:09 pm

pinki wrote:Ah I can see the inspector for generators allows a selection between 'Chordal-Scales' which can introduce non-harmonic tones from the current scale. that's good. So suspensions anyone?

Excellent question about non-harmonic tones and suspensions (I am a fan of contrapuntal composition). I believe a suspension can manifest as either a tied or a re-sounded non-chordal note. Although RC may be able to introduce non-chordal notes, I am not sure if it currently would immediately repeat the same non-chordal note, and I doubt it would hold the non-chordal note over to the next accented beat or bar. I am thinking special phrase Variations and/or Generator Properties would need to be implemented in RC to introduce these and other contrapuntal techniques as part of phrase generation; of course, Attila would know for sure.

pinki · Post by **pinki** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:34 pm

Thanks tonedef,

The thing for me about chords and phrases is that the interest lies in the boundaries between them. The journey from one to the next is what makes the music if you will. Hence parallels are important, non-chordal tones, hence suspension too.

And not just in classical ideas...pop songs rarely have blocks...things tend to change before or after the beat more often than not, and this is what gives it it's momentum.

What concerns me about RC is that everything is block-like (on my initial demo-ing). I'm happy to be wrong about this, but at the moment I'm longing to see 'fuzzy edges' to the phrases, phrases that are influenced by what is about to come, or what has been.
I guess this is what composition is and what computers cannot do. (Harmony Builder does do it but it's enormously complicated and a huge task)

Then again I like the way dragging the phrases vertically automatically will change the inversion, this is cool.

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:08 pm

pinki wrote:... at the moment I'm longing to see 'fuzzy edges' to the phrases, phrases that are influenced by what is about to come, or what has been.

I think RC has some capability to that end. The Bass Generator has the following properties: "Connection To Next Phrase" and "Connection Movement".

The Phrase Magnets feature attempts to provide a smoother transition between phrases via transposition.

There is also a Phrase Morphing feature that is not available in the demo version:

the phrases between the two will be composed automatically by RapidComposer so that there is a smooth transition from the source phrase to the target phrase. There are several options to control this transition.

The Melody Generator (not yet available in the demo version) may have some capability as well; I need to spend more time playing around with it. It is described in the RC User Manual.

Also, in the RC User Manual I see that most Generators have "Chord Notes %", "Repeat Next Note %", and "Repeat Next To Last %" property sliders, which may help to randomly create a suspended non-chord note, but I am not sure.

pinki · Post by **pinki** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:46 pm

Ah OK thanks, it's a deep program and needs much time I am discovering. The manual is a bit thin though!

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:19 am

This is something I have not thought of. Maybe it would be useful if notes could refer to the 'previous' or 'next' chord, not just the 'current' chord...
Even better it would be interesting to have a variation that adds suspension notes, or changes notes to suspension notes by checking the previous or next chord.
Where can I read about the rules of placing suspension notes? Is it typically one or two such notes at the beginning of the phrase, which are from the previous chord? Does it happen when a chord note from the following chord appears at the end of a phrase?

This is interesting, thanks!

Attila

pinki · Post by **pinki** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 pm

Attila thanks for your understanding.

here is a fine example of suspension: (from where it says 'allegro')
http://musictheoryexamples.com/17RE/REf.pdf

And yes you are basically correct....a note is consonant with the prevailing harmony...the prevailing harmony changes on the next beat.... so the note in question is now dissonant.....causing that note to need to move down a step to become consonant to the new prevailing harmony.

In the link I posted (bb3 to 5) you'll see what is called a 'chain of suspensions' which is very powerful: the resolution by downward step in turn becomes a new suspension. This causes enormous forward momentum.

There are not too many rules. The normal way to resolve is downward by a semi-tone or tone, but that is not a hard and fast rule. In the example it happens in-between beats but that is not a rule, rhythmically it can take any form (I think!)

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:23 pm

Thanks Pinki!

Didn't know this website. There are many, many, many examples (with extracts from romantic and classic works) illustrating all the subtleties of the music theory!

I discover there a great website!

The root of this website: http://musictheoryexamples.com/

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:40 am

Good stuff! Thanks for bringing this up, Pinki.

While my understanding of suspensions (and there is a related concept whose name escapes me at the moment) is primitive ... I always imagined importing the MIDI to my DAW and dragging out a note or two across the phrase transition to accomplish this. While in the end I will always be massaging the MIDI in the DAW anyway ...it would be wonderful to have these features in RC.

If you stick around for a while you'll see that Attila is extraordinarily responsive to good ideas.

angelonyc · Post by **angelonyc** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:52 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:This is something I have not thought of. Maybe it would be useful if notes could refer to the 'previous' or 'next' chord, not just the 'current' chord...
Even better it would be interesting to have a variation that adds suspension notes, or changes notes to suspension notes by checking the previous or next chord.
Where can I read about the rules of placing suspension notes? Is it typically one or two such notes at the beginning of the phrase, which are from the previous chord? Does it happen when a chord note from the following chord appears at the end of a phrase?

This is interesting, thanks!
Attila

Yes, this is an excellent idea. I have been incorporating it by hand in Logic. It hints at the introduction of a new chord.. Depending on the note it, can add a bit of tension that is quickly resolved. Or it can create a fluid feel to the piece in general. It also blurs the distinction between chords.. great compositional too.

MixedUpNoise · Post by **MixedUpNoise** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:46 pm

This sounds powerfully fun.

themixtape · Post by **themixtape** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:22 am

Attila, my understanding about suspensions and non-harmonic tones are explained in that diagram in the manual (near the end).

Some general rules about suspensions:
- the sus4 chord is usually followed by the major of the same root, near the end of a progression... usually a V-I change (where the suspension comes on chord V)
- sus2 and sus4 are the common types, and can be "decorated" with a major or minor chord. For instance... Dsus2 - D - Dsus4 - D, or Am - Asus2 - Am- Asus4
- another common type is the 7sus4... which can resolve to the 7th (dominant) of the same root, or, it can resolve to the major (D7sus4 to D7... or D7sus4 to D)

As far as how to implement it into RC, I've no idea... suspensions are used basically wherever the writer wants to use them. You can clearly hear their use in the middle/end of Bach's "Prelude in C Major", which is so well-done in general (as most classical music is).... so yeah, I dunno...

Anyone else's thoughts?

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:08 am

In my humble opinion, the best discussion ever about suspensions was in the two treatises of Jean-Philippe Rameau (french composer and famous virtuoso of harpsichord).

The first one was in his "Traité de l'harmonie" published in 1722.
And the second one was in his "Code de la musique pratique" in 1760.

The first has been translated in english. Here you can download in PDF all the editions which have been scanned in french and in english:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Trait%C3%A9_de_l% ... hilippe%29

The second has also been translated in english but there is only one edition scanned in PDF... and it is in french:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Code_de_musique_p ... hilippe%29

Fortunately for you who are non french speaking there is an excellent study made in english by Harrison James Wignall which makes a long, deep and very interesting comparison between the two books of Rameau which is aimed especially on the topic of the suspensions :
https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bits ... entV13.pdf

Very good readings!

Jean-Philippe Rameau was one of the major theorists of the music. Here you can find all his works existing in PDF (I give you the link which opens on the tab giving his books, in each item you'll be able to download the (french but also english) PDF files by clicking the large vertical arrows):
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Rameau,_ ... 271fe9995f
(in the tabs "Compositions" and "Collections" you will also find the best scores of all his works)

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:10 pm

Thank you, BlackWinny, for the references!

Chris, you gave me a good idea! We don't have to modify any phrases to introduce suspension as I thought earlier, this is what the master track is used for. An algorithm could "decorate" the master track by inserting suspensions, and all phrases will automatically follow the master track. It would be a kind of "chord processor" that analyses the master track chords and adds new suspended chords where needed or possible. Does it sound good?

Thanks,
Attila

MusicDevelopments

KVR Audio

Suspension and non-harmonic tones