I need a little help for the banks of a VST in RapidComposer

[BlackWinny]

Hello friends

Could someone give me a little help to understand how I can load the banks of this VSTI (an amazing freeware synth called OBXD) in RapidComposer ?

I haven't been able at all to load in RC any of the banks (so of course the same about its patches).

Here is a zip file which contains the synth and two examples of its (free also) banks in subdirectories (and preferably these subdirectories might stay as they are to preserve the compatibility with the other hosts and DAWS installed on the same computer) :
http://dfiles.eu/files/hm1eq74uu (32 bit for this specimen)

My problem of course is not to get the synth in RC... but to have access to one of its banks (anyone). It's an example of a synth (there are many like this now) which delegate the management of the patches to the host.

Could someone help me ?

[tonedef71]

That is a very good question. I ran into a similar problem with an Applied Acoustics Systems VSTi that I added to RC -- not all of the presets showed up in the RC preset browser. I have not yet discovered a pattern as to why some of the presets appear while others do not. I suppose one could manually add the missing preset entries to the RCinst file that RC initially generated for the VSTi when you first added it under settings; of course, adding all of the missing preset entries could be tedious, if there are a large number to be added.

[dsan@mail.com]

Hi guys,
You can set up your own Custom Midi patch changes as you like.

Here is a link to how to do that:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8&t=386595

Attila had given me this ability a long time back. It will require you create the lists by typing the information but once done it is very useful - at least to me. I have created banks of program changes for many of my VST's.

The downside is when you use the track inspector to load your program changes you have a very long list of bank selections to choose from. It's not so bad if you limit your banks to a vst you use most often.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

EDIT: Just wanted to mention - as with GM banks, each custom bank is limited to 128 patch changes. You will need to set your banks accordingly.

If your synth permits you may want to create a custom set of most used patches in it (load fxb or similar) and then create your Custom Patch List in RC.

HTH

[BlackWinny]

Hello tonedef and dsan

Yes, if I have correctly understood it's a fail soft mode but which works. I'm gonna try. It involves making choices in another DAW, noting the bank or patches to reuse in RC, and modifying the configuration file of RC... A bit tedious but why not. In general one doesn't really like to have to fiddle about with the technical configuration files. For us who exactly know what we do because we have a rather good level it is of course acceptable, but we can be sure that it will lead to a reject of RC from many average users in technical concepts about the files (it often frighten the basic user in front of his computer).

[BlackWinny]

I ran into a similar problem with an Applied Acoustics Systems VSTi

Ha, you also you like the AAS products? They are among my favorite ones!

[tonedef71]

Hi guys,
You can set up your own Custom Midi patch changes as you like.

Here is a link to how to do that:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8&t=386595

Just wanted to mention - as with GM banks, each custom bank is limited to 128 patch changes. You will need to set your banks accordingly.

If your synth permits you may want to create a custom set of most used patches in it (load fxb or similar) and then create your Custom Patch List in RC.

Thank you Dennis for the thorough explanation! I think I can work with this solution.

[tonedef71]

I ran into a similar problem with an Applied Acoustics Systems VSTi

Ha, you also you like the AAS products? They are among my favorite ones!

Initially, I did not think much of the AAS products -- I had Ultra Analog Session, Acoustic Strum Session, and a very old version of Tassman. Many years later, I picked up Ultra Analog VS-1, after listening to the sounds in the Swatches compilation and getting hooked on the sound packs. I picked up a bunch of the sound packs and synths when AAS had its last big sale. I really dig the sound of the sound modeling algorithms developed by AAS.

I have recently begun looking at the Waves Element synth as well, and I like what I have heard so far from its "virtual voltage technology".

[BlackWinny]

I have some difficulties to put in practice the anwser Attila made to you (probably due to my native language, french) :

Hi Dennis,

I had a feeling that I did not understand something.
I'll send you an update in the next few minutes.
Not all .rcINST files are loaded, only the ones that are used. I added some fixes to allow loading any "Custom*.rcINST" files, so you can name your file to e.g. CustomRtpMIDI.rcINST. Bank selection is implemented now, so the following will all work:

Code: Select all

name="BankMSBLSB+Program"; kind="MIDI"; _program=1; _midibankmsb=10; _midibanklsb=1; category="Piano";
name="BankMSB+Program"; kind="MIDI"; _program=2; _midibankmsb=10; category="Piano";
name="Program Only"; kind="MIDI"; _program=3; category="Piano"; 
name="Bank Only"; kind="MIDI"; _midibankmsb=10; _midibanklsb=1; category="Piano"; 

Of course "Bank Only" makes not much sense, but when '_program' is missing or it is set to -1, program change will not be sent.

I hope it will be more usable. Thank you for letting me know about this issue!

Thanks,
Attila

Let's assume this example :

• The file obxd.dll of my VST has this pathname :
  • C:\~~~~~\DatSounds\OBXD\obxd.dll
• One of the banks of this VST has this pathname :
  • C:\~~~~~\DatSounds\OBXD\OBXD patches\Factory.fxb (it contains several patches)

In a notepad I have created a file
C:\Users\***\AppData\Roaming\RapidComposer\DB\CustomOBXD.rcINST
but even by reading the code in the frame above... I don't understand what must be the content of this configuration file for, for example, the header and the first patch (I guess the other patches have the same syntax).


A little helping hand?

[dsan@mail.com]

Yes, the format is a bit confusing. I disagree it's due to your native tongue - you seem to have a very good grasp of English

Your example file name is accurate. The path name, .dll name, etc. of OBXD is irrelevant.

Now to "How to get the information in the file":

What I did to set up my rc.INST file was to open the VST in my DAW and then type the patch list into a notepad file, in the format Attila outlined. I found it quickest to copy/paste the previous entry and then change the necessary components.

You will not be able to pull in the information direct from an FXB file due to the format requirements of rc.INST file.

The format indicated in the previous post is options. You should use the two lines of code relevant to what you need. There are 4 options in the post.

For example; if you want to use "Programs" only you would use the 3rd format option(and I will substitute names here); name="Echo Synth"; kind="MIDI"; _program=123; category="Piano";

Note the semi colon within and at the end of the line. Also be sure there is a "space" character after the semi colon. The format is extremely important.

I'm not at my DAW computer at this time; however, I should be in a couple of hours (or less) and will post a copy of my Custom rc.INST file. I am confident it will help shed some light on the issue. I used msb/lsb in my creation so the file will appear a bit different than my example above.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[dsan@mail.com]

Here are the Custom rc.INST files for Rob Papen's Blue.

I hope this helps you get the how to sorted and for anyone else that can use these, have fun!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

Here are the Custom rc.INST files for Rob Papen's Blue.

I hope this helps you get the how to sorted and for anyone else that can use these, have fun!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

Thanks Dennis!

I try to understand also the logic of RC in its task to drive the VSTs. The use of VSTIs for instruments can be done with RC as standalone or only with RC as VST itself in a DAW?

In other words: do I have to follow the "CHAPTER 5: VST Use & Configuration" of the help file ? (and assuming I use Mulab instead of Reaper for example)

[dsan@mail.com]

Hmmmm....you have sort of lost me here BlackWinny since I do not use either Reaper or Mulab, nor do I use RC as a VST, nor do I use VST's inside RC. I use it stand alone on one computer and pump the output via MIDI over LAN to another computer which has my DAW (Live9, Sonar X2, Studio One v2 or Cubase 6).

Inside these DAWS is where I have my instrument VST's. RC sends the MIDI messages to the DAW which in turn drives my VST, via track controls. I use rptMIDI and loopMIDI for connections. (Recently como baila turned us on to MIDIfier which is another great connector, but I digress - sorry).

So, about the manual chapter 5; While most DAW's will be set up this way, some may differ; however, I think it safe to say that if you follow the instructions in the manual precisely you will be able to function the VST as described.

If you want to use RC stand alone (on the same computer with your DAW), you will need virtual MIDI cables (loopMIDI). You would route the RC MIDI outs to the DAW MIDI ins.

If you want to use RC on one computer and a DAW on another you will need MIDI over LAN (rptMIDI). Basically same routing principals - RC MIDI out (via rptMIDI) to DAW MIDI in. This gets a little more complicated.

If you want to use VST's inside RC then you should follow the instructions in the manual. Again, the technique may differ some but the principal will be the same.

Does this answer help you? I'm at a loss otherwise, sorry. Please explain further if my response is not what you look for. (Sometimes I'm a bit dense )

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

So, about the manual chapter 5; While most DAW's will be set up this way, some may differ; however, I think it safe to say that if you follow the instructions in the manual precisely you will be able to function the VST as described.

I have downloaded and installed the evaluation of Reaper to follow precisely the instructions of the chapter 5... and I hear the two instruments chosen totally by at random among my old VSTIs (which are more conventional than OBXD since they manage themselves their patches and banks). This first step... done.


Now... the problem for the second step will be to replace one of these two old VSTIs by OBXD... which doesn't manage itself its patches/banks (and it is precisely the crucial problem that I need to resolve with the help requested here in this thread, the ideal being to have these patches/banks managed by RC).

With a quiet analyze of your file build for Rob Papen Blue, I'm sure I'm gonna grasp all that.

Hop ! I get back to work for this second step!

Only after that as a third step I'll try to see how we get it with RC as standalone.

Inside these DAWS is where I have my instrument VST's. RC sends the MIDI messages to the DAW which in turn drives my VST, via track controls. I use rptMIDI and loopMIDI for connections. (Recently como baila turned us on to MIDIfier which is another great connector, but I digress - sorry).

Probably that it is here where is my solution...

Until today I always used composition tools (Mulab, Sibelius, BIAB...) which never needed MIDI connectors, they were at the same time "composition tool" and hosts for the VSTIs they can use, and all of these tools were able to chose themselves (by a menu at the top of the encapsulating window) the patch of the VST. That's why I'm very confused with the way RC works with VSTs which have no internal management of their patches/banks...

[dsan@mail.com]

I see, I have better understanding now.

Perhaps these pictures will help clear your concerns. They show the selection method in RC from the Track Inspector view.

The first is the rc.INST Instrument Selection screen and the second is the Patch change screen (Indicated as "Preset" on the Track Inspector panel) after having selected a RP BLue patch list.

Instrument Selection.jpg

Patch Selection.jpg

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[BlackWinny]

Second step done. With RC used as a VSTI in Reaper, I can of course get the banks/patches of OBXD in Reaper. It is normal. And I've also understood now the equivalent method with Mulab.

But now my insane difficulty is to get (and choose) these OBXD banks when RC is used in standalone.

Hop ! Back to work! (with readings...)