FR : Vary / Modulate incoming MIDI velocity

[Burzukh_Studios]

dear Calle,

It would be immensely useful in a variety of scenarios :

a modulation option for destination "incoming MIDI velocity" would be awesome.

It would be another way to implement round / random robin without having any actual round robin samples but enough velocity samples.

[elcallio]

Uhm, I'm not sure that makes sense. MIDI is an _input_, so it does not really work that it is modulated per sé... (maybe from DAW).
If you want random modulation of "velocity", just turn off MIDI velocity, and map random to AMP. If you want random "velocity mapping", why not just make a matrix with the velocity map, and set the source to rand?
Or is there a use case I don't see? Please expand...

[Burzukh_Studios]

Uhm, I'm not sure that makes sense. MIDI is an _input_, so it does not really work that it is modulated per sé... (maybe from DAW).
If you want random modulation of "velocity", just turn off MIDI velocity, and map random to AMP. If you want random "velocity mapping", why not just make a matrix with the velocity map, and set the source to rand?
Or is there a use case I don't see? Please expand...

Thanks for the prompt reply !

I will try to illustrate :

lets say I have 16 samples for various velocity splits (eg: S01.wav till S16.wav)

I stack them as per normal (directly in the key mapper or as a matrix). Now its spread across as 127 /16 velocity zones. If I send any velocity from 120 to 127 it will always trigger S16 (the highest sample).

I want it to take and play a few from surrounding velocities, so sometimes it plays S16 but also on occasion plays S15 and S14 as well. Its still velocity based triggering, but with slight variance introduced by modulating the incoming midi velocity (source : random --> destination : midi velocity).

The thing required to achieve this is add "midi velocity" to the list of available destinations in the mod table.

the only other option I can think of is defining matrices for each "pool" of samples (set to random / round robin) and then stacking them in the mapper (which will multiply the effort required to achieve the same 10 fold).


I hope I have been clearer but let me know.....

So,

[DarkStar]

If I understand correctly, you would like the incoming velocity to be modulated /modified before the sample is selected for playing.

For example, 123 could go to 106, 114 or 126; 81 could go to 66, 71, 77, 85 or 93 and so on. That way I could have semi-random or sequential changes in the sound without having to program it all in my DAW.

[Burzukh_Studios]

If I understand correctly, you would like the incoming velocity to be modulated /modified before the sample is selected for playing.

For example, 123 could go to 106, 114 or 126; 81 could go to 66, 71, 77, 85 or 93 and so on. That way I could have semi-random or sequential changes in the sound without having to program it all in my DAW.

yes, exactly, "incoming midi velocity" as a destination in modulation.

[elcallio]

So, this is a little work-aroundish, but if you put your velocity layers into a matrix, then set Y-axis controlled by ENV1 (or two), then set the ENV1 start level at -1. Then add a modulation Vel -> ENV1 AMP, strength -1. Now ENV1 level is controlled by velocity.
Then, to add the random element, add a "Via" Random, at some strength. Now, you have velocity drive layer selection, but with a slight randomization to the value.

[Burzukh_Studios]

that is pretty awesome work around ! So its using the attack slope graph of the ENV1 as the velocity curve ( so to speak ). pretty cool !

i first checked without adding " via source : random" to see default behaviour.

but it seems to be skipping a few velocities in the middle or the top (depending on the case), and no amount of tweaking the env1 can get it to hit all one by one (yer basic velocity test).

so i have a matrice with 8 layers, and a test midi file that should trigger all eight layers one by one (order of increasing velocity), but it plays something like the layers v1, v2, v3 and v5 in that sequence of 8 hits, while completely missing the other layers.

[Burzukh_Studios]

Hi Calle,

Any further tips regarding the above mentioned implementation. I have tried every variation of the ENV1 / Vel mod i could think of but it still doesn't trigger all the layers successively. I have not yet ascribed random variation, because i need to get the first part right/perfect before introducing the randomness.

[elcallio]

Yes, sorry, I just realized that for your case it does not work so well. ENV1 (like all modulators) is bipolar, i.e. generates output in the range -1:1. Mapping it to matrix position means -1 = 0 and 1 = 127 (MIDI). However, mapping Vel (or anything else for that matter) to ENV1 amp cannot move it to more that 0, since modulation is capped (and should be - otherwise a lot of other things would get messed up).

For your case it would help if, for example, there was a mod dest "seq pos", that set the initial offset of a seq generator. Or if matrix axis also had a "via" parameter, like map Vel -> Y via RAND * 0.1, i.e. velocity but with a randomizing factor.

Sorry for the wild goose chase. I'll need to think a little on this.

[Burzukh_Studios]

Yes, sorry, I just realized that for your case it does not work so well. ENV1 (like all modulators) is bipolar, i.e. generates output in the range -1:1. Mapping it to matrix position means -1 = 0 and 1 = 127 (MIDI). However, mapping Vel (or anything else for that matter) to ENV1 amp cannot move it to more that 0, since modulation is capped (and should be - otherwise a lot of other things would get messed up).

For your case it would help if, for example, there was a mod dest "seq pos", that set the initial offset of a seq generator. Or if matrix axis also had a "via" parameter, like map Vel -> Y via RAND * 0.1, i.e. velocity but with a randomizing factor.

Sorry for the wild goose chase. I'll need to think a little on this.

Thanks for getting back to me.

I would say option 2 is the better suggestion (matrix axis having a via parameter)....that or my original suggestion of "incoming midi velocity" as a destination in the mod matrix.