The other side of the synthesizers learning curve

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Hello to the u-he team and community !

I've always thought of myself as a beginner in the synthesizer world and use. I own a few plug-ins for a long time, like FM8 from its initial release time, and I've always spent a long time programming them, to include key-like sounds or atmospheric pads in some of my progressive rock or metal tunes. And I do like making very punchy dance music too, most of the time mimicking songs that I like in terms of musical structure and kinds of sounds being used. Recently, I've bought a few plug-ins from u-he, and I have a lot of fun with Zebra 2.8 and Repro-1 specifically. But I still feel I'm lacking in something very basic to really enjoy the experience as much as possible, hence that topic.

I read some interesting topics very often on KVR related to software synthesizers. But most of the time I see the same patterns happening again and again, like the "what is currently the most realistic virtual analog synth in the world" topic, or "I need to buy a synth, which one do you recommend", or "I've got that money and I want these sounds, what should I buy (or not because I forgot I have this synth for ages)", and "does that synth sounds like this other one". Basically, people talk a lot about a few specific and singular topics :
  • Learning curve, how much effort to be able to finally get that sound with a plug-in already owned or potentially bought soon, by using knowledge and skills that can only be obtained with a fair amount of time spent using it and watching tutorials
  • User interface / User experience / Product design, how to get that same sound as fast as possible with as less effort as possible (because of the features of course but also because of the way the controls are organized, the sounds that can be obtained more easily than other with it, the way the plug-in has been designed in general, thanks to the embedded creative effects (delay, modulation, reverb etc.) and embedded production effects (dynamics effects, EQ), thanks to the presets and commercial soundsets, but even more importantly because of the gear acquisition syndrom and some lack of patience associated with it)
  • Realism, which is basically "anyway, is that sound really feasible with that synth"
  • The Fun factor, how much can I enjoy spending hours playing with that synth, to go to familiar territories and to unexpected creative places too, which make me want create some music or use it again and again
A few other topics such as CPU usage, the minimal set of synthesizers to own to cover all the needs, or the specific tech being used in the plug-in, can be seen very often too. And we have that topic, which is fundamental in my opinion :
  • Sound design, how to get a given sound which exists in the user mind or in a given song, from any given synthesizer plug-in (if possible of course)
Which makes me think that most of the time, people on forums talk about tools, but not about what they do with it (oh really lol). But most importantly, I realized that a beginner in the synthesizer world can miss what makes expert synth users what they are, if looking only for this kind of information source. To me, these points are very important :
  • Knowing your set of synthesizers. Of course, that means spending a lot of time on it, either by making presets or knowing them and using them again and again. But that also means knowing the specific sweet spots, what makes the synthesizer unique, how to use a specific feature in an unexpected way to get something very singular and cool, like what we often call "synthesizers tricks" in tutorial videos, and how to be able to be very fast in composition / sound design / production in a specific context.
  • Meaningful use of synthesizers. A lot of musicians have tons of gear to play with, and they do play a lot. But they don't play in a band, they don't create songs from the start to the end, they don't even record demos, and so they are missing a very important way to acquire knowledge and skills related with their musical instruments. They are lacking of a goal.
  • Culture and technical/musical ear. I feel like you can't really improve the way you use synthesizers if you don't know a lot of music in the specific genres you like, and you must be able to listen to it with a technical ear, like "what kinds of sounds have been used there", "what is the structure of the sound", "how many sounds are played at the same time there and here", "how can you mix that synth sound to get that result" etc. You can also look for information on tutorials and videos about the "making of" for a specific sound, and play along with music kinds or "clichés" (look, I mixed Benny Bennassi with dubstep and glam rock). We could add also some science of musical arrangement and categorization of sounds capabilities
  • Experience. Which can be linked with culture and then translated into "Ok I need a bass sound, how can I start", "I should start from that lead preset and change it this way to fill the frequency spectrum in that context", "where should I add automation", "do I need more FX sounds or more automation to create a transition there" etc., which is also the amount of songs you created, and how many questions did you ask that you got solved over the years.
  • Workflow and musical knowledge. Ok, now I have all the things above. How can I start creating songs with synthesizers only in the most efficient way, on the musical side ? Should I use a keyboard and record notes as I played them ? Should I use embedded arpeggiators or step sequencers, write notes one by one on the piano roll, banish any controller with keys, use mixing templates or MIDI files, import stuff recorded on the past as a base, as audio or MIDI, play with grid-like controllers, knobs or whatever. Should I know how to play scales on my keys, chord progressions, even what major modes are or should I use MIDI effects and only the white keys ? Should I use that specific DAW, or a tablet, or hardware stuff only, play with patching modules ? Should I create something very static in the DAW, or play with a template on Ableton Live + Euroracks and create some kinds of live compositions with the record button being pushed all the time ?
I've seen recently in a topic that Urs designed Zebra at first to make a kind of software version of his Access Virus (tell me if I'm wrong), and then that he added all the extra features he felt he would have enjoyed on his Virus. That's the kind of very cool anecdote that I like to read on KVR. I was wondering then about how did he spend his time back at these days when playing with his synthesizers, what kind of sounds was he looking for, if he recorded them, what made him feel frustrated with the Virus and how did he enjoy it the most.

So now everyone, I would like to ask you guys : what do you do most of the time when you play with u-he synthesizers ? How much effort do you spend creating something with your synths instead of just using them ? And what did you do which made you really feel that you really increased your skills with them and also your general enjoyment ?

By the way, I think that the synth song contests on KVR are one of the best way to improve synths use skills, and that some plug-ins companies should definitely organize something like that for their commercial plug-ins and customers once in a while, as a way to help them use their plug-ins in better ways !

And thanks to the ones who have been able to read my comment :)

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I complete about one original song recording per month. More often than not, I will take a preset (that I did not create) and make some tweaks to it. I'm much better at tweaking someone else's patches than coming up with my own completely from scratch. For me, I would rather spend most of my time creating an original song as opposed to spending most of my time writing patches from scratch. I leave that up to people who are better than me at creating patches from scratch.
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436

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That's amazing to be able to produce one song per month constantly ! Do you always have a good idea about the different kind of sounds you'll need to make the song ? Do you take some inspiration from music you listen to, or do you play around with different tweaked presets, and try to make something out of it ?

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In 1999, I completed 19 original songs, but some other years I have completed much less. I also play electric guitar, electric bass, and a tiny bit of harmonica; do some singing. About half the time a synth patch (almost always someone else's patch) will inspire a song due to its sound; but I usually tweak the patch. Or sometimes I just noodle around on the guitar or bass until I come up with a riff I like, and then it builds from there. Sometimes a drum beat from drum software will inspire me. I have been influenced by a lot of different bands that I like. I got a song played on the Radio BBC once, from what I understand you could hear it in Northern France also. Here is a link to my music website, if you are interested:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/defaul ... dID=224436
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436

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I like to run synth patches through guitar amps (real or simulated). I like to place speakers around a room, or down a hallway and capture synth patches through stereo mics. I like to run synth patches through miniature guitar amps, like the Smoky pocket amp (2" speaker driven by a 386 amplifier chip--gnarly as hell sounding) and swing it around the room on the end of a cable like a lasso, recorded by stereo ribbon mics, maybe. I also like taking the Smoky amp and putting it up to my mouth and using it like a talk-box, for formants.

The synth patches I usually use with guitar amps are harmonically rich and conducive to overdrive and fuzz. A guitar amp is basically a bandpass filter. They do a really good job of blurring precise--artificial I might say--details of a given synth patch. At it's best, you can get some really rich sounding voices that can scream and sound sweet as well.

I should definitely mention the important aspect of mono here. When summing things to mono, in the analog world, true infinite responses occur in the channel busses, speakers, cables, etc. Summing things in the digital realm is most powerful too when using stuff like tape emulators and amp sims, though not as pleasing IMHO, plus various digital artifacts are unavoidable.

So pump a synth beat and kick drum through a bass or guitar combo; tweak the levels for the best interaction/saturation and maybe toy with some digital pre-effects.

Another aspect of capturing synthesizers with microphones in a real room is that you're taking these strange instruments and placing them in to a frame of reference that's more comfortable/relatable to your ears/brain. What I mean by that is synths can produce sounds with such detail and range across the spectrum that, A. it couldn't possibly be natural, thinks your brain; B. it may even be painful, highly energetic and agitating. Maybe this is exactly what you're after. Although, if you want to soften it up and make is sound more palatable, perhaps, then real a speaker, an air-gap, microphone(s) can't be beat ... yet.

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Love this topic! :)

I'm practically an absolute beginner (at 55 :ud:) in music.

I like to play synths to experience a 'sonic universe' in which to dwell and to express my emotions. (Or to try out different sounds with my piano lesson pieces :D)
So most of the time I look for sounds with a lot of atmosphere, 'space' and (subtle) movement.

I like to generate presets with the aid of (controlled) randomization. That way I can go easily beyond the standard workflow and get a better idea what a synth is capable of.

I have too many synths to really to learn a synth 'inside out'

I haven't made recordings (yet). I do hear melodic and musical structures 'in my head', but it's very hard to translate/express them with my synths.

My goal would be to create soundscapes with a nod to/inpired by the early Schulze's music. (based on (un)synced running multiple sequences. my best tool for that is still EnergyXT-1, because its modular, non-linear approach to sequencing)

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Thanks for all you very interesting comments !

aaron > what is the name of the song which was played in Northern France, I might have heard it !

lunardigs > sounds very cool to experiment with synths + guitar amps + room acoustics :love: :love: :love:

ZeePok > it's funny sometimes how you can stick with an old software for its very specific workflow. I remember I tried EnergyXT a long time ago... At that time, even if I was using Tracktion 1 a lot, I spent most of my time playing with MODPlug Tracker and the host Chainer, where I recorded everything in one shot, then saved the result, and played the result with a WAV file reader plug-in to record on top of everything, and then again etc. :lol: It sounds cumbersome, but that's the moment in my life I recorded the biggest amount of songs a year.

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Ivan,
The name of the song is "Black and White". As far as I know, it only got played once on Tom Robinson's 6 Music "Introducing" radio show years ago.
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436

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oops, made an entry on the wrong thread.
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436

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To me, Zebra, Bazille and Synthmaster are a giant box with colors, too much for me to master in a lifetime. I have to baby step my way through them, one small application after another. I learn by watching videos by uhe and applying it of course. Then that is my place to take off from and come up with new ways or ideas to generate my own sounds. And of course: read the manual

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